Thread: Russian R

Originally Posted by Remyisme

aren't you americans make a sound that's close to our R, when you pronounce the words, "throat" or "through"?

You know, I never thought about that - and I think your right! At least for when the R is in the middle of a word, the comparison works. That's so cool.

Being Scottish, a 'hard' R comes naturally when I speak. As does the 'och' sound.

German's "R" is pronounced forcing air from diaphragm similar to the sound when you gargle your throat with liquid.

But Russian's "R" and many other countries' "R" such as indian spanish the machinegun sound is mainly caused by vibrating tongue with a little bit air flow.

However in real life when i hear russians talking to each others, i can hardly hear that machinegun sound, but something like "L", eg, "zdLasvooytye", "da skoLaga". But songs like "Катюша" and such have too much stunning machinegun sound.

My question is that If I cannot "machinegun" what so ever, can i just pronounce "L" instead? eg "halasho...etc" not "harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrasho"?
cuz I think using english "R" to pronouce russian "R" sounds strange, i'd prefer using "L".

many thanx!

Холошо

sounds tatar :P

Originally Posted by awjln

German's "R" is pronounced forcing air from diaphragm similar to the sound when you gargle your throat with liquid.

...

You probably meant ch instead of r, which sounds like x in Russian or j in Spanish.

Or French R. It is uvular.

Do not substitute R with L - you will have a Chinese accent or something.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Do not substitute R with L - you will have a Chinese accent or something.

I would say a Japanese accent since the r sounds like an l.

Originally Posted by TATY

Or French R. It is uvular.

Probably and I would say whether it is an uvular r or not will depend on the word and on the person.

Originally Posted by Spiderkat

I would say a Japanese accent since the r sounds like an l.

Nope, it’s viceversa — in Japanese accent L would sound as R. (Remember Lost in Translation movie).

Originally Posted by Triton

Nope, it’s viceversa — in Japanese accent L would sound as R. (Remember Lost in Translation movie).

What's in bold makes no sense, unless you don't know the meaning of vice versa. Was it humor?
And it's about how to pronounce a r and not a l.

It makes perfect sense.

The Japanese language has no L sound, so Japanese people tend to pronounce L sounds in other languages as R, and not, as you said, the opposite way around:

I would say a Japanese accent since the r sounds like an l.

Hence "vice versa".

Originally Posted by scotcher

It makes perfect sense.

The Japanese language has no L sound, so Japanese people tend to pronounce L sounds in other languages as R, and not, as you said, the opposite way around:

I would say a Japanese accent since the r sounds like an l.

Hence "vice versa".

Did you read what I wrote? You can't say "no + it's vice versa" since "no" here implies that I'm wrong and "vice versa" implies that I'm right.

Here's the definition of vice versa : used to say that the opposite of a situation you have just described is also true.
This means that "the opposite way around" has nothing to do with the meaning of "vice versa".

You're right, no L groups sound but R groups sound which sound like L. For instance, domo arigato would sound like domo aligato.

Did you read what I wrote? You can't say "no + it's vice versa" since "no" here implies that I'm wrong and "vice versa" implies that I'm right.

Here's the definition of vice versa : used to say that the opposite of a situation you have just described is also true.
This means that "the opposite way around" has nothing to do with the meaning of "vice versa". Wink

Yeah you're right, his use of vice versa was wrong, but since it was still blindingly obvious what he meant, and since what he meant was perfectly correct, it didn't warrant the sarcasm you dished out.

You're right, no L groups sound but R groups sound which sound like L. For instance, domo arigato would sound like domo aligato.

Are you on crack? Japanese doesn't have an L sound so it's R sounds like an L? If that were the case, why not just call it an L in the first place?

Originally Posted by scotcher

Yeah you're right, his use of vice versa was wrong, but since it was still blindingly obvious what he meant, and since what he meant was perfectly correct, it didn't warrant the sarcasm you dished out.

There was no sarcasm. I simply pointed out something.

Originally Posted by scotcher

Are you on crack? Japanese doesn't have an L sound so it's R sounds like an L? If that were the case, why not just call it an L in the first place?

No, I'm not. What kind of stupid question is that [what's in bold].
Do I need to go through a bunch of explanation or can you do your own research? But maybe you can speak Japanese.

What's in bold makes no sense, unless you don't know the meaning of vice versa. Was it humor?

I was thinking of the best translation for the word наоборот. Wrong choice, I guess.

Originally Posted by Triton

I was thinking of the best translation for the word наоборот. Wrong choice, I guess.

This kind of thing happens sometimes, don't worry.

Originally Posted by scotcher

Are you on crack? Japanese doesn't have an L sound so it's R sounds like an L? If that were the case, why not just call it an L in the first place?

They dooon't? Then they must have a really thick r that sounds like an 'l'. Many of the standard pharses I learnt use an 'l'... have I really been mistaken all these years (and the Japanese dont correct me?)

Originally Posted by Spiderkat

No, I'm not. What kind of stupid question is that [what's in bold].
Do I need to go through a bunch of explanation or can you do your own research? But maybe you can speak Japanese.

You are having trouble understanding what everyone else is typing and I am the one who needs further explanations? haha. Yeah right.

Originally Posted by Spiderkat

But maybe you can speak Japanese

I could speak reasonable Japanese (for a gaijin) a few years ago after having studied it at uni for three years then sat (and passed) level 2 of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test, so while I don't really speak it very well now, you can rest assured that I am perfectly well aquainted with how the language works and sounds.

Originally Posted by Vinnie

They dooon't? Then they must have a really thick r that sounds like an 'l'. Many of the standard pharses I learnt use an 'l'... have I really been mistaken all these years (and the Japanese dont correct me?)

No, they don't, but yes, the Japanese R does sound different to English or Russian R. In some parts of Japan they pronounce it closer to an L, in other parts they pronounce it closer to a D. It's still recognisably an R though.

That is why Japanese people often transpose R for L when speaking foreign languages, or at least so the stereotype goes:

Customer: The chicken was rubbery.

Japanese waiter: Oh thank you very much!

which is what Triton meant when he corrected Spiderkat in the first place.

Originally Posted by scotcher

No, they don't, but yes, the Japanese R does sound different to English or Russian R. In some parts of Japan they pronounce it closer to an L, in other parts they pronounce it closer to a D. It's still recognisably an R though.

Make up your mind. In your own words you just agreed to what I had said in my first post.
And I agree with you they pronounce the r in difference ways.

Originally Posted by scotcher

...
which is what Triton meant when he corrected Spiderkat in the first place.

Actually he didn't because it was about how they would pronounce an r in Russian and you jumped into the pot with both feet to argue how they pronounce an l in English.