Thread: Held up on ы and й

taty, I was just pulling your leg.

These consonants belong to a special group, called sonorants.

й is not a vowel. й is not a consoanant. й is called a semi-vowel. I believe that the reason behind that is that it can only be used in conjunction with another vowel.
Tй would not be pronounced tie because й could NEVER come after ANY consonant.
TOй woulod be pronounced toy.
ий makes the ey (ej sound for German's, Scandanavians, Polish Speakers, etc.........) from the english word key
Maй would be prounced mI or like the German word Mai (meaning May).

Thanks mp510.

Originally Posted by TATY

To say the r in rat, really, wrong, firstly the mouth starts CLOSED, as does M.
.

Don't talk shite boy! There is no way any R sound in the history of the universe ever started with the lips together as it does with M!

that's true.

Originally Posted by scotcher

Originally Posted by TATY

To say the r in rat, really, wrong, firstly the mouth starts CLOSED, as does M.
.

Don't talk @@@@ boy! There is no way any R sound in the history of the universe ever started with the lips together as it does with M!

I dont know what I was saying.

Originally Posted by mp510

й is not a vowel. й is not a consoanant. й is called a semi-vowel. I believe that the reason behind that is that it can only be used in conjunction with another vowel.
Tй would not be pronounced tie because й could NEVER come after ANY consonant.
TOй woulod be pronounced toy.
ий makes the ey (ej sound for German's, Scandanavians, Polish Speakers, etc.........) from the english word key
Maй would be prounced mI or like the German word Mai (meaning May).

Й /j/ is a consonant, but can be called a semi-vowel. But it is a consonant, as featured on the International Phonetics Alphabet list of consonants:
. The other consonant which may be called a semi-vowel is English w (/w/) which is the same as Belarussian Ў.

ta ta ta taty? I don't hear anyone but you saying й is a consanant.


ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD????

You guys are WAY too into this.

Originally Posted by Rosa Anna

ta ta ta taty? I don't hear anyone but you saying й is a consanant.


ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD????

[j] is a consonant and a semi vowels. All semi-vowels are consonants. It's juse like saying [b] is a plosive, not a consonant.

Originally Posted by Darobat

Originally Posted by Rosa Anna

ta ta ta taty? I don't hear anyone but you saying й is a consanant.


ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD????

[j] is a consonant and a semi vowels. All semi-vowels are consonants. It's juse like saying [b] is a plosive, not a consonant.

j is a consanant..... so.
I want a russian to tell me й is j.


thanks though darobat.

Originally Posted by Rosa Anna

j is a consanant..... so.
I want a russian to tell me й is j.

That's true. й[j] is consonant. Look here for example (the second paragraph from the bottom) http://www.philol.msu.ru/rus/galya-1/kons/n-4.htm

Originally Posted by Friendy

Originally Posted by Rosa Anna

j is a consanant..... so.
I want a russian to tell me й is j.

That's true. й[j] is consonant. Look here for example (the second paragraph from the bottom) http://www.philol.msu.ru/rus/galya-1/kons/n-4.htm

I don't need to look. Friendy said it-therefore it is true.



Finally!

(I still don't agree with (j) as a transliteration. Confusing to Am-Eng speakers. J is a G sound almost always.

Y is more correct, but
that й=й is much better.

Originally Posted by Rosa Anna

(I still don't agree with (j) as a transliteration. Confusing to Am-Eng speakers. J is a G sound almost always.

[j] is a symbol of the international phonetic alphabet here, of course it shouldn't be used when one is transliterating a text for an english speaker to understand it, but when we are dealing specifically with phonetics I think it's more preferable.

In accord with the book by Д.И. Ермолович "Имена собственные на стыке языков и культур", й is rendered as y. The combination ий is rendered as y, excepting Yuri. Vowel + й is rendered as i like in Baikal or Gaidar.

Moreover, there is some more ways of rendering irrespective of language rules and of any language as well. They are used for specific purposes only like in telecommunications or technical documentation. Here you can find j or jj.

Originally Posted by scotcher

Originally Posted by TATY

To say the r in rat, really, wrong, firstly the mouth starts CLOSED, as does M.
.

Don't talk @@@@ boy! There is no way any R sound in the history of the universe ever started with the lips together as it does with M!

It is doable. In Englsih, especially when i am trying to talk slow for "perfect" pronunciation, I seem to start with my lips closed similar to with m when saying r. When it is is done intentionally, and one is paying attention, it is almost like saying mat instaed of rat. Never noticred that before.

mp510, saying /r/ with your lips together is, what - I cant imagine what you are saying.

Of course, if you are saying a Russian word like /mraz/ then you have started with lips together for the /m/ but then /raz/ is something else again.

To say /r/ you might put your lips in the position of Russian /u/ for ex. утро, but not lips touching. If you are doing that, you sound out-of-this-worldly. Say /run/ is it mrun? JK, but watch what you say!

In most European languages, J has the same sound as English Y.

When you see letters given in [ ] or / / it is referring usually to the International Phonetics Alphabet symbol.

J does not have a G sound in English.

G sometimes sounds like J as in George.

English J consists of two sounds d + s [measure]

But back to the point. Someone said й is not a consonant, or a vowel, it is a semi-vowel. That is wrong because semi-vowels are consonants.

And when you say only I say that Rosa, you are wrong. It is just me and all the major phonetics organisations in the world.

Originally Posted by TATY

In most European languages, J has the same sound as English Y.

When you see letters given in [ ] or / / it is referring usually to the International Phonetics Alphabet symbol.

J does not have a G sound in English.

G sometimes sounds like J as in George.

English J consists of two sounds d + s [measure]

But back to the point. Someone said й is not a consonant, or a vowel, it is a semi-vowel. That is wrong because semi-vowels are consonants.

And when you say only I say that Rosa, you are wrong. It is just me and all the major phonetics organisations in the world.

somebody please give this one a poptart.

TATY-

This is not a pissen contest.

I'd have to read the entire thread to find your origional arguement against the data on this site-- and I'm just not going to do that for YOU on behalf of those you argue against.

Quit practicing your arguement on me--and take it somewhere else.

I've recieved some EXCELLENT and VALID information from very kind and educated people on this site. To which I am most grateful.

But no offense,

The way you write, you don't come across as believable--even if your data may be.

So when I ignore commentary from you--

Maybe you will grasp-

Why.