Thread: Yushchenko Poisoning

Originally Posted by waxwing

BlackMage:
If I had any proof that George Bush had ordered the attack on the World Trade Center, you would be on the Faux News forums posting how my proof is flawed.

Originally Posted by Mordan

Well I thought he was depicted as a Nazi and a bandit in your media. Would you support a poisoning attempt against Hitler? Hmmm

Whose media? откуда я?

What irritated me about Mordan's question was not the suggestion that Putin may have directly ordered the poisoning, however wacky that suggestion is - but that the Russian people, given incontrovertible proof of his involvement, would accept it. That is what I think is offensive.

вы - из китая, извините

I thought you were russian. Nonetheless my argument holds as I'm sure to have heard reports saying Yushchenko was depicted as a nazi and a bandit in the official russian media.
Would you have accepted the poisoning of Hitler?

Originally Posted by Mordan

Originally Posted by scotcher

Can somebody point me to the article where Putin is accused of being involved in the poisoning, or even having been aware of it?

Nobody claimed such a thing. Jeez.. Are you faking on purpose the fact you can't read what is written?

I can read perfectly well what is written sweetheart, and furthermore I can recognise what is implied beyond what is written, and why you implied it, and that's what I chose to comment on.

Perhaps in my eagerness to avoid offending anyone I was slightly too obtuse for you?

OK here goes then; why don't you grow a fucking brain and stop poluting the internet with your moronic ramblings, you half-witted tit?

Better?

Originally Posted by scotcher

Originally Posted by Mordan

Originally Posted by scotcher

Can somebody point me to the article where Putin is accused of being involved in the poisoning, or even having been aware of it?

Nobody claimed such a thing. Jeez.. Are you faking on purpose the fact you can't read what is written?

I can read perfectly well what is written sweetheart, and furthermore I can recognise what is implied beyond what is written, and why you implied it, and that's what I chose to comment on.

Perhaps in my eagerness to avoid offending anyone I was slightly too obtuse for you?

OK here goes then; why don't you grow a fucking brain and stop poluting the internet with your moronic ramblings, you half-witted tit?

Better?

Greetings scotcher,

I appreciate your manners, that's very kind of you. But could please stay on topic?

truth lies plainly here for the true heart to see.

Why do you persist with "Hitler and nazi"? Cannot imagine other offensive words for your rhetotical questions? Every time this poor Hitler pops out...

Внимание! Сегодня утром в нашем колхозе Гитлер-2 упал под мостом, где он лежал, тяжело ранен, до того, что поймали его с хвостом. Советский рабочий немецкого происхождения сказал, что благодаря быстрой реакции своих сотрудников, он не был "совсем капут".

Originally Posted by Propp

Why do you persist with "Hitler and nazi"? Cannot imagine other offensive words for your rhetotical questions? Every time this poor Hitler pops out...

Argument
1)Yushchenko = nazi in russian media
2)Yushchenko poisoned by a third party

Question for making you think: No accusations

What would a today's russian say if he learnt Putin supported the poisoning of Yushchenko?

Would you have supported the poisoning of Hitler?

Replace Hitler by Stalin, Polpot, Evil Blue, Morgoth, Belzebluth... jeez

Just showing you some side effects state controlled media

Originally Posted by Mordan

Argument
1)Yushchenko = nazi in russian media

Where on earth did you get this from? He isn't painted as nazi in our media.
"media X is biased against A" doesn't equal "A is nazi in X media"

Just showing you some side effects state controlled media

It seems your view of Russian media is too outdated. Not all Russian media is controlled by the state and not all media is anti-Yushchenko. It's pretty easy for everybody to become familiar with different points of view.

Originally Posted by Mordan

1)Yushchenko = nazi in russian media

Yuschenko is western puppet in Russian media, it isn't equal to being a nazi, just as bad.

What would a today's russian say if he learnt Putin supported the poisoning of Yushchenko?

Such operations should be
1) successful
2) secret

If I knew that Putin ordered that failed poisoning, I would be very dissapointed. His professionalism would be discredited.

Originally Posted by Propp

Why do you persist with "Hitler and nazi"? Cannot imagine other offensive words for your rhetotical questions? Every time this poor Hitler pops out...

http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html

Originally Posted by Pravit

Внимание! Сегодня утром в нашем колхозе Гитлер-2 упал под мостом, где он лежал, тяжело ранен, до того, что поймали его с хвостом. Советский рабочий немецкого происхождения сказал, что благодаря быстрой реакции своих сотрудников, он не был "совсем капут".

Heh heh heh.

Originally Posted by Mordan

Even though there is no proof about the link between the government and the Yushchenko poisoning, there is a high probability that is indeed what happened.

Mord

Please, give me some proof, what Yuscenko was poisoned!

AFAIK, the only proof we currently have is the statement made by director of Austrian clinic, where Yuscenko was examined.
Maybe I wrong, or was it the same clinic where Yuscenco was examined couple of months ago? If he has poisoned, why it wasn't revealed couple of months ago? Wasn't poisoning much easily detectable immediately after, than considerable time later?
And why head doctor of this clinic resigned immediately after director claimed Yuscenko poisoned? Who can answer?

Originally Posted by Scorpio

[
Maybe I wrong, or was it the same clinic where Yuscenco was examined couple of months ago? [b]If he has poisoned, why it wasn't revealed couple of months ago?[

http://www.cirs.kiev.ua/progs/wsj_ua_02.html

Let me quote some most interesting parts of this article.

When Viktor Yuschenko, the leading opposition candidate in Sunday's presidential election here, broke out last month in lesions that disfigured his face, acute pancreatitis and a sudden rash of stomach ulcers, taking him off the campaign trail for a month, he said he was poisoned.

So... which was diagnosis: acute pancreatitis or poisoning?
This is not the same.

Mr. Yuschenko's Austrian doctors were stumped and further tests are being conducted in laboratories in the U.S. and elsewhere to determine whether some poison was used.

And where are results from american laboratories? Why we don't hear much about them?

But Ukraine's state prosecutor has ruled that Mr. Yuschenko had a simple virus and the government of his chief rival, Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, denies any role. A campaign aide for Mr. Yanukovych says the sickness was a result of the opposition candidate's lifestyle.

Sounds obscure -- but this version may be closer to truth.

I think it is time to understand, that Russia and Ukraine are two completely different countries.
Morgan asked if anybody supported a system that did not condemn deliberate poisoning of a another citizen.
I ask do you support a system that unleash the war in Iraq.

Scorpio, that article is 2 months old. The reason I referred to it was to show that Yuschenko's symptoms were hard to diagnoze, which is quite understandable given the effect of dioxin on the human body. No reasonable person would do that to themselves and Yuschenko would have to be considered somewhat reasonable to have held the position in life that he has so far.

I have heard nothing of his Doctor resigning so far, so I cannot speculate on that issue.

Originally Posted by Елена *

I think it is time to understand, that Russia and Ukraine are two completely different countries.
Morgan asked if anybody supported a system that did not condemn deliberate poisoning of a another citizen.
I ask do you support a system that unleash the war in Iraq.

I disagree; Urkaine and Russia are alike. Just take into account the fact that both countries speak russian and Urkraine is the place where Russia comes from

Iraq?

Well I don't see the link with the original subject. I would consider making another thread

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Originally Posted by Mordan

Even though there is no proof about the link between the government and the Yushchenko poisoning, there is a high probability that is indeed what happened.

Mord

Please, give me some proof, what Yuscenko was poisoned!

Give me proof that the US went on the Moon. Give me the proof Stalin lived. Give me proof that you live at all and are not a bot managed by an apparatchik? Give me proof...

I only have my eyes, my reasoning, my experience to infer that he was poisoined. He was leading the poll when he was poisoned, or so I heard.

Originally Posted by Scorpio

AFAIK, the only proof we currently have is the statement made by director of Austrian clinic, where Yuscenko was examined.

Look at his face god damn it. @##$% look at his face! That's proof enough for me.
I just heard at the radio that an Amsterdam based laboratory had found that his dioxin level was actually 6000 times higher than normal. I consider him lucky if he survives this ordeal.

Moreover I tend to trust a lot more the independent western clinics than the enslaved and corrupted russian clinic officials.
I'm afraid that anything told by russian officials cannot be trusted at all. Reason: look at the culture of secrecy and authoritrianism that is the one of the KGB. And unless I'm really malinformed, but the KGB now rules Russia. This argument is paramount to discard nearly automatically russian's officials words. Give me a russian free media and I will listen again.
That's sad, but you got to know it takes a long time to earn and built up credibility and just a second to lose it all.

I might sound harsh, but you guys got to face it, Putin ain't doing much good to your country, with all those "siloviki" (?) around him. Raping Yukos while not touching other russian oil companies? WTH? What is that if not super high corruption. Everyone is equal in front of the law. Why Khodorkovsky and not the others? As a result western investors are being extremely wary and when oil prices go down, Putin = kaput. I was hopeful he was the man, but no more. Once in the KGB, forever ...

I support Kasparov [/quote]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Let me quote some most interesting parts of this article.

When Viktor Yuschenko, the leading opposition candidate in Sunday's presidential election here, broke out last month in lesions that disfigured his face, acute pancreatitis and a sudden rash of stomach ulcers, taking him off the campaign trail for a month, he said he was poisoned.

So... which was diagnosis: acute pancreatitis or poisoning?
This is not the same.

Your statement here is a little flawed. Perhaps the lesions, acute pancreatis and rash or ulcers were caused by the poison?

On an off topic question. What do the Russians on this forum think of the presidential candidate from Russia Rybkin who was supposedly drugged and kidnapped and taken to Kiev to film some dirty tapes to blackmail him. When did this happen, two years ago? Is he lying or maybe something like this happened.

Originally Posted by drew881

What do the Russians on this forum think of the presidential candidate from Russia Rybkin

What do I think about empty place?

Originally Posted by Mordan

Originally Posted by Елена *

I think it is time to understand, that Russia and Ukraine are two completely different countries.
Morgan asked if anybody supported a system that did not condemn deliberate poisoning of a another citizen.
I ask do you support a system that unleash the war in Iraq.

I disagree; Urkaine and Russia are alike. Just take into account the fact that both countries speak russian and Urkraine is the place where Russia comes from

Iraq?

Well I don't see the link with the original subject. I would consider making another thread

Ukrainian have their own national language. It's Ukrainian language. They speak on it.
It's an illusion to believe that huge Russia came from Ukraine. I don't deny connections between our countries, but these are the different countries.
The link between the poisoning and Iraq is that in all countries it's difficult for separate people to struggle with system. For example American system is not better than Russian. The American government did't hear the opinion of the people which preached down the war.
Besides, from what sources you have learned that in Russia poisoning people is normal?