Thread: What can be done to prevent terrorism?

An al-Qaeda linked website said that the group Islamic Caucasus Emirate, led by the rebe Doku Umarov, was poised to claim it had staged the attack.

If I hadn't been furious I would be laughing at that. "An al-Qaeda linked website said that another group was poised to claim". Ok, so a website linked to the Nile Crocodiles said that the Seahorses Liberation Front are ready to claim the responsibility of the Moscow airport bombing too. Why hadn't Doku Umarov sent a VHS tape to the major news agencies on the same day and f****** said it himself holding a rifle under his flag or something like that? Why do we need a website LINKED (by whom?) to al-Qaeda (al-what?) to learn what Doku Umarov wants to say? When those Chechen guys are holding hostages and demanding ransom for their hostages' lives, they do seem to have the necessary recording equipment, don't they?

So, you seem to be saying that powerful Russians were behind the bombing to get the people to go to war against Chechnya once more. I admit that these type of things are done in this world. I believe that 911 was used for such a purpose. But here are two problems I have with this in this case.
1. Putin/Medvedev do not need such a ploy. They can accomplish their agenda without such tactics, in Russia.
2. It was such a small bombing. We already know that these Moslem separatists use these tactics regularly.

I take this for face value, just like I take "Beslan" at face value.

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cold

So, you seem to be saying that powerful Russians were behind the bombing to get the people to go to war against Chechnya once more. [...] I believe that 911 was used for such a purpose.

Actually, no. I don't think Russian Government had done it before and I don't think Russian Government had done it now. It is impossible. It is also impossible for the US government to do anything close to 9/11. Those governments might have benefited from the results in some ways (and lost in the others), but they 100% did not design and did not execute those actions. Behind those theories lies a perception that the secret services are omnipotent and that is simply not true. The secret services just like any other government services are full of bureaucrats who only think of how not to get involved into anything and be responsible for anything. Like any other governmental services they do not really care about the real performance, but more of their own retirements and benefits. How do you imagine that happening in practice? One bureaucrat is saying to another: "our president is not popular in his own country; let's blow up a couple of hundreds or thousands of our own citizens?" That is laughable. What if one bureaucrat is just testing another for loyalty (as part of the regular check-ups)?

Посмотрел передачу Соловьева, Васильев против Митрохина. Единственный трезвомыслящий человек из всей шайки-лейки оказался Гудков. А так, судя по этой дискуссии, нет у нас перспектив на защиту от террора.

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cold

Very often Moslems do not know these things themselves and other times they do know, but they are intentionally lying to you about it in order to deceive you into thinking Islam is something it is not. This is called "Taqiyya" and it is the principle of lying to "Kafir" (That's a derogative term used by Moslems for anyone that is not a Moslem) Kafir according to Mohamed, can be lied to in order to spread Islam. So, can you imagine the possible implications that brings if you have a Moslem politician in your town!

This would be shocking if it wasn't for the fact that all politicians lie. But yes, the overall concept of taqiyya is extremely disturbing. Compare it with the Christian idea of being prepared to die for one's faith, which seems to me to be equally extreme in the opposite direction, but at least it doesn't involve deliberate deception.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Behind all this I see a thorough policy of alienation of Caucasus from the rest of Russia as a part of even greater strategy. Well, I could live with it if only this policy was not a policy of our own government. I'm afraid that Russian territory will shrink to barely fit the Central-Russian plain within the next 20-30 years. Caucasus will separate, the Far-Eastern territories and a part of Siberia will be slowly assimilated by the Chinese and there will be several independent republics to the east from the Volga river.

Gosh, maybe... ! Based on the events of the 20th century: When it comes to Russia, nothing is impossible! Is it as "empty" in the Eastern part of Russia as it looks on the map? There are a few large cities in Eastern Russia, aren't there? I thought it was (or at least had been) a conscious strategy in Russia to try to populate the Eastern part of the country.

But if it really is very empty, then I guess it isn't inconcievable that China might be glancing in that direction since they have too many people in their country...They've been really shrewd in how they gone about ensuring their own energy supplies for example. So maybe they'll start looking at getting more "lebensraum"....If there is unused agricultural land, then someone will want it.

But if Chinese people move into Russia, isn't it more feasible that they become Russians (by nationality and language) rather than the borders changing and the land becoming Chinese?

Anyway, I wouldn't panic about the extinction of Russia just yet... Russian is the biggest native language on the European continent!

PS - As for Caucasus; It wouldn't surprise me if many Russians think that whole area is more trouble than it is worth. That may be true from an national economic perspective as well. I don't fully understand the situation; I have understood that Chechnya is increasingly "Islamized" by Kadirov, with the good knowledge of Moscow, and that most of the problems are now coming from Dagestan.

Originally Posted by Demonic_Duck

The phrase that springs to mind is: "don't hate the player, hate the game".
Another thing I have to disagree with. By this logic, as long as there are more slave owners than slaves, slavery is perfectly acceptable (as the majority prefer it). Yes, laws should be made for the good of the governed, but not to the extent where the "greater good" steamrollers over the rights of a minority.

Well, they are Russian citizens with a secular education and the same rights as anyone else in the RF, right? So if they do not enjoy the lifestyle in the Caucasus, they can move elsewhere in Russia and assimilate. Many women DO like Islamic life though. It's very narrow minded to call all Moslem women "slaves". Plenty of Moslem women in Europe keep up the Islamic lifestyle completely of their free will and are perfectly competent to make an educated choice about how they prefer to live.

The women in the Caucasus can choose a traditional lifestyle or a modern lifestyle elesewhere in Russia, depending on their preference. Why would you call them oppressed? Probably, their biggest problems have to do with personal finances, not with how to deal with their culture/religion.

Originally Posted by mishau_

А так, судя по этой дискуссии, нет у нас перспектив на защиту от террора.

The Empire strikes back: The domino effect of Arab unrest - CNN.com

Originally Posted by Hanna

The women in the Caucasus can choose a traditional lifestyle or a modern lifestyle elesewhere in Russia, depending on their preference. Why would you call them oppressed? Probably, their biggest problems have to do with personal finances, not with how to deal with their culture/religion.

You seem to be a fine example of why women shouldn't vote! You live in a dream. Muslims in the Caucasus are getting shot with paintball guns by Muslim police for not wearing Muslim clothing.
Caucasus: Police shoot paintballs at unveiled women, dowries tripled as Sharia becomes ever more entrenched - Jihad Watch


At least a dozen places selling alcohol in the North Caucasus were attacked with grenades, bombs and gunfire over the last year as armed Islamists bent on installing sharia law have stepped up their battle against those who fancy a tipple.

Last week saw the latest fatal attack in the town of Khasavyurt in Dagestan, near the border with Chechnya, where a bomb ripped through an alcohol-serving cafe, killing four.
slamist rebels later said in a statement that "the owners were repeatedly warned but they were arrogant."

"It is only a matter of time before places involved in the filth of alcohol... will meet their destruction," they said on the insurgency-affiliated website jamaatshariat.com .

Attacks last year were almost double of those in 2009, officials say.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The Empire strikes back: The domino effect of Arab unrest - CNN.com

Они забыли упоминать мусульманское братство!

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cold

Они забыли упоминать мусульманское братство!

Забыли упомянуть - здесь должен быть глагол соверш. вида.

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cold

Они забыли упоминать мусульманское братство!

Yeah, you're right. They deliberately stress the point their uprising has nothing to do with the Islamic Brotherhood so as not to put the Western journalists off too much, I guess. As usual, the "radical elements" would spend most of their time in an opposition, so it's no wonder they are welcomed at this point to help overthrowing the present regimes. But once the opposition would gain the power, the former opposition would convert to the bureaucrats and would get rid of those "bros" as standing with some kind of "ideals" in their way to the hard-earned corruption benefits. At this point, it's been stressed the opposition is mostly the secular youth.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Well, they are Russian citizens with a secular education and the same rights as anyone else in the RF, right? So if they do not enjoy the lifestyle in the Caucasus, they can move elsewhere in Russia and assimilate. Many women DO like Islamic life though. It's very narrow minded to call all Moslem women "slaves". Plenty of Moslem women in Europe keep up the Islamic lifestyle completely of their free will and are perfectly competent to make an educated choice about how they prefer to live.

I wasn't calling Muslim women "slaves" at all, I was just pointing out a flaw in your logic.

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cold

You seem to be a fine example of why women shouldn't vote!

Oh dear. Can't be bothered to comment, to be honest.

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cold

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/chechnya-police-shoot-paintballs-at-unveiled-women-dowries-tripled-as-sharia-becomes-ever-more-entre.html]Caucasus: Police shoot paintballs at unveiled women, dowries tripled as Sharia becomes ever more entrenched - Jihad Watch[/url]

A totally unbiased American hosted site about Islam, telling the full truth, sans progaganda and absolutely no underlying agenda. Great. I change my mind right away..... NOT!

Originally Posted by Demonic_Duck

I wasn't calling Muslim women "slaves" at all, I was just pointing out a flaw in your logic.

Ok, no worries !

Originally Posted by Hanna

Oh dear. Can't be bothered to comment, to be honest.


A totally unbiased American hosted site about Islam, telling the full truth, sans progaganda and absolutely no underlying agenda. Great. I change my mind right away..... NOT!

Absolutely absurd! I don't know why I waste time with people like you. And you can vote! pathetic.
Let me ask you this then, toots. Where would YOU go to get information about the real agenda of a certain group? Would you go to to a Nazi group and ask them if they were immoral and racists? If you did, would you end your quest for the truth after talking to them or would you go and seek somewhere else.... perhaps you would go to a "biased" anti-Nazi group. Oh no! Apparently you would not do that..."because they don't like Nazis." "They're biased"!
You are a real basket case...but perhaps you make a nice chocolate cake.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

At this point, it's been stressed the opposition is mostly the secular youth.

Yes, youth, but how secular really? Whose word do we have for that. A recent study (last year) has said that of Egyptians:

77%: Believe thieves should be flogged or have their hands cut off (Qur'an 5:38 prescribes amputation.)

54%: Believe men and women should be segregated in the workplace

20%: Think suicide bombings are sometimes or often justified

95%: Say it's good that Islam plays a large role in politics


82%: Believe adulterers should be stoned

84%: Believe apostates from Islam should face the death penalty



So, given this, where are these "secular" youth coming from? Keep in mind the 1979 Iranian Revolution was largely a youth movement too and now look.........one of the "youth" that keep American Hostages for 444 days is the insane President of Iran who calls for a worldwide Islamic caliphate.

Sgt. Cold - would you be so kind and tell us where did you get these figures, who made the research and where are they published.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Sgt. Cold - would you be so kind and tell us where did you get these figures, who made the research and where are they published.

This is from The Pew Research Center.
Poll shows Egyptians favour democracy and stoning for adultery - The Globe and Mail

Women Against Shariah

Egypt, Democracy and Islam - Pew Research Center


I'd say that Egypt is about to become another Islamic state ......but I'd go even further! I foresee an Islamic caliphate on the horizon. And further, I see civil unrest in many European countries that have allowed this disease of Mohammedanism into their countries, in the next decade. The world is in for some REALLY bad times because few people are addressing the problem, and the main ones who do address it, have been lying to the people.

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cold

I see civil unrest in many European countries that have allowed this disease of Mohammedanism into their countries, in the next decade.

To troll a bit, there are some people who think that the so-called "unclaimed" terrorist acts like 9/11 were designed by Europeans. The theory goes like that:

1. The recent demographic trends in Europe indicate that in another 20-30 years the majority of its population would consist of non Europeans (=Muslims) with the well-predictable consequences.

2. The present European mindset does not allow them to transfer/segregate/etc. and changing that mindset is not feasible at this point. (Yes, France had attempted something on a low-scale with Gypsies, but it's apparent it's not working on a large scale.)

3. Presently, Europe is fearful of: the US, Russia, and Islamic countries (each of them for different reasons).

4. If it would be possible to kill the three rabbits with one bullet and provoke a war between "the West" and "the East", but stay out of the hot war the US and Russia from one side would crush the Islamic regimes worldwide, but would exhaust the majority of their resources. The potential benefits the abstaining Europe would gain are:

- the previously lost (in the WWII) World economical and military domination, and

- the moral rights to arrest the Islamic capital based in the Swiss Banks Europe and force the transfer of their Muslim immigrants out of Europe (similarly to what the US had done to their Japanese citizens in the WWII).

5. So, Europe has strong incentives to make the present titans clash and weaken each other. Hence, the "Oh!! Islam is a threat in its foundation!!" aka. The New Crusade rhetoric.

6. So, what European country could do that 9/11 thing? No country meaning a government, but there are lots of people who want and could do that. It's just a technical issue of making them meet. You don't need a government for that.

7. Ok, so some muslim brothers can pilot a jet and are ready to get into the Heaven, but they can't organize anything. However, there are still lots of professional spies from the demolished Warsaw Pact countries who lost their jobs in 1989, but they still hate the US who won the Cold War and crushed all their ideals. GDR, Poland, Chechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria. Even if only 1% of the spies went private and stayed patriotic, they can professionally design the 9/11. And I don't need to explain who can be the sponsor.

So, what do you think of that trolling?

Well, I think that, if there were Moslems flying those planes into the twin towers, that they had help from somewhere too. I think that the towers were prearranged to collapse. There are too many firefighters that said that they heard multiple explosions. There was Thermite found there afterwards. There is a credible report that one flight recorder was recovered even though the officials say it wasn't. Most pilots think that these terrorists were not experienced enough to direct those planes into the buidings, including the owner of the flight school that they attended.
I see 911 as a separate problem to the problem of Islamists who want to spread their ideology to the West.