Thread: The views of Russians, according to the "Pew Institute". True or false?

Написал jnllll (и мои извинения модератору, but I wanted to make a comment as a non-native learner of Russian):

Хотя я и неуважительно отношусь к лицам нетрадиционной сексуальной ориентации, но оскорбительных терминов по отношению к ним не употреблял.
Значение слова "п@дарас": пидорас — Викисловарь
Обратите внимание на 2-е значение этого слова. На этом и была построена игра слов моего комментария.

Аг-гаааа!

Знаете, jnllll, когда я (в качестве иностранца) читал ваше сообщение выше о "п@дарасах и гомосексуалистах", смысл вашей игры слов не дошёл до меня. Я принял ваше слова за "настоящию гомофобию", и естественно, на меня производит отрицательное впечатление о человеке, если он с предрассудком относится к иным.

А потом я читал дальше на ссылке "п%дорас" у Викисловаря, и стало ясно, что в этом контексте я понял (и перевёл) слово не так. Короче, я теперь понимаю в итоге, что вы не хотели приложить слово "п%дорас" к гомосексуальным мужчин, а к некоторым политическим лицам. (Да?)

I hope that made sense in Russian! What I wanted to say is that as a foreigner, when I read jnllll's comment about "п@дарасах и гомосексуалистах", I was a little bit shocked at first because I didn't "get" your wordplay, and I took "п@дарас" to mean "противный, грязный, паршивый гомосексуалный мужчина" -- in other words, a "faggot" (which is usually the correct translation into US English!).

And I thought he was making a homophobic joke, based on this general model:

Мужик приходит к сексопатологу, говорит:

-Знаете доктор, я -- гей...
Доктор ему:
-Вы наверно очень богаты?
М:
-Да нет...
Д:
-Тогда вы наверное дизайнер, музыкант, художник?..
М:
-Тоже нет.
Доктор:
-Ну так ты не ГЕЙ, мужик, ты ПИДОР!

We have a somewhat similar joke in English, which can be told about blacks, homosexuals, Jews, Chinese, women, etc., with the substitution of the appropriate terms:

Q: What do you call an African-American gentleman who has left the room?
A: A "nigger".

(NB: This joke is not always "racist"; sometimes it used in an ironic, sarcastic, "meta-humor" way by someone who is anti-racist -- it depends on who tells the joke, and in what tone of voice. One can even use the same joke in a political way: for example, a "Republican gentleman" who has left the room is a "Nazi", while a "Democratic gentleman" becomes a "Commie".)

But now I see that in jnllll's comment, "п%дорас" referred to certain politicians, and not to homosexuals -- and thus the correct translation here would probably be "c*cksucker" -- we generally wouldn't use "faggot" in this sense.

However, the point I want to make for jnllll is that it gave me (temporarily) a bad impression of him when he used such a rude word, because I'm not Russian and I understood him in a too-literal way. So that's another reason to avoid using language like "п%дорас" -- even if you don't care at all about being polite to "лица нетрадиционной сексуальной ориентации", it's disrespectful to foreigners learning Russian if you use such terms carelessly on a Russian-learning site such as MR.

And the reason it's disrespectful to foreigners is that you're asking us to understand that you meant to use "п%дорас" in its second meaning -- and you also expect us to understand that you, jnllll, are NOT the type of пошлый хам who habitually uses the word in its first meaning! (Even Lampada, a native Russian speaker, misunderstood your meaning. How much more will non-natives misunderstand you?)

In the same way, I wouldn't tell the joke above (about an "African-American gentleman") on an ESL-learning site, at least not without explaining the joke's context, and warning ESL speakers not to repeat the joke!

I hope this all makes sense to jnllll!

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

We have a somewhat similar joke in English,

Yes, you can read about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_F_Word_(South_Park)



"The F Word" was the highest rated episode of the thirteenth season of South Park.^[6][9] The episode was seen by 1.99 million households in the subgroup of adults between the ages of 18 and 49.^[9] The episode earned a higher rating than that of The Jay Leno Show, a primetime late night talk show on NBC.^[10] Nevertheless, it was seen by fewer cable viewers than the FX drama series Sons of Anarchy, which drew 2.32 million households; the E! reality show Keeping Up with the Kardashians, which drew 2.19 million households; and a television special about reality show star Kate Gosselin, which drew 2.3 million households.^[

Originally Posted by mishau_

Yes, you can read about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_F_Word_(South_Park)
^[

Good observation, mishau! Yes, the "F word" episode of South Park was making the same joke -- that "faggot" sometimes refers to male homosexuals, and sometimes does not.

After thinking about it, I also remembered a Russian анекдот about Ilya Muromets, who comes to a crossroad and sees a sign: "Налево пойдешь -- коня потеряешь, а направо -- п*дором станешь". In the joke, Ilya goes to the left, and doesn't lose his horse, but he soon meets Змей Горыныч and Баба Яга and chops off their heads. He's ready to kill Соловей-разбойник, too, but the bandit says "So, Ilya, you've become a п*дор after all!" (I.e., a п*дор in the Southparkian sense of a "loud, annoying asshole who rides a Harley motorcycle", but not in the sense of "homosexual".)