Thread: The Small and Poor Central Asian Countries..?

I saw a documentary about these countries (Kyrghistan, Tadjikistan, Uzbekistan...)

All the people who were interviewed were able to speak Russian and they seemed to like Russia a lot!
They were making lots of positive comments about being part of the USSR in the past. They explained the economic and moral decline that their countries had experienced since becoming independent. Criminality seems to be out of control.

Bear in mind that this was a British made documentary... If anybody had said anything bad about Russia, this would absolutely have been included. But all those interviewed were positive.... I also remember from school that these countries were literally built up from being very backwards places, by resources and expertise from Russia.

I don't know much about this region but I was sad to see the economic decline and the poverty of the people. It seems that lots and lots of people from there travel to Russia for seasonal work anyway. So they are not truly independent..

So my question is: Why exactly did these countries become independent?
If they like Russia and they are better off economically if they stick with Russia, then why did they leave? Or did Russia somehow throw them out of the federation?

It was in fashion then, to become independent...

Got a link or title of the film? How old where these people? I will guess they were 50 or older? Why would Britain not make a film containing criticism of Russia? They thing sounds like propaganda to me. Where is the other side of the story? Just curious!

Originally Posted by Johanna

So my question is: Why exactly did these countries become independent?
If they like Russia and they are better off economically if they stick with Russia, then why did they leave? Or did Russia somehow throw them out of the federation?

USSR was itself a federative state (at least formally). It was consisted of 15 Republics and Russia was only a part of the USSR. One of 15. There was a "federative" soviet government and "local" ones like Russian, Ukrainian, Georgian, Tajik etc. In 1991 USSR government was collapsed as a result of Gorbachev's reformations ("Perestroyka") and unsuccessfull insurrection of conservative communists. So leaders of 3 local governments (Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian) made a pact which abolished the USSR and gave all power to the local governments. And all 15 republics suddenly became independent of each other.

AFAIK, national elites of Central Asia were very unhappy of this fact but they were unable to do anything.

Originally Posted by noheat

Got a link or title of the film? How old where these people? I will guess they were 50 or older? Why would Britain not make a film containing criticism of Russia? They thing sounds like propaganda to me. Where is the other side of the story? Just curious!

I checked it, and the title of the series was "Meet the Stans". It was a series of four programs but they were not allowed to film in Turkmenistan. It turns out the series was made by CBC (Canada), it was only the presenter who was British. That could be the explanation.

There was a bit of "propaganda" (lol) though... It seems impossible for anybody to make a film about Russia without that...

For instance half of the episode about Kirgistan was actually about a US airbase located there. The film crew was shown around the base by a US army "public relations officer" ( a super-friendly female soldier who actually had a stuffed toys collection in her bed at the base!!! I think you get the message...

After the visit to the US base, the film crew went to a Russian base nearby. However they were not allowed in at the Russian base and the presenter made a comment to complain about this...

But then the young Kirgiz guy who was "guiding" the film crew then said something like "People here don't trust the Americans but they trust the Russians, so we don't mind the Russian base...."

There was also a long section about contaminated material (radioactive) that had been left by USSR military without cleaning up. Can't remember which country that was in.

@ iti-ogo --- thanks for the helpful explanation... I didn't consider that...

Another thing that I just noticed is: These smaller countries don't have a land border with Russia -- Kazakhstan is in between and they are probably less interested in joining forces with Russia since they are doing well on their own.

Noheat, what are reasons to think, that it was propaganda? Do you think Russia is “bad” and “evil”? My friend, who very like a history, compares USSR with Rome Empire, because both tried to up culture, educate, economic and life levels in friendly states (do you forget a soviet idea “fraternal peoples”?). I’m not a “fanatic” of Soviet Union, but I think, that many things were brilliant in that time.

For example:

Originally Posted by Л. П. Берия

Наша внутренняя политика основана на нерушимом союзе рабочего класса и колхозного крестьянства, на братской дружбе между народами нашей страны, на прочном объединении всех советских национальных республик в системе единого великого многонационального государства -- Союза Советских Социалистических Республик.

"В системе единого великого..." Oh, I see, It's a symbol of "Jung" Self.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

It was consisted of 15 Republics and Russia was only a part of the USSR. One of 15. There was a "federative" soviet government and "local" ones like Russian, Ukrainian, Georgian, Tajik etc.

It's interesting that each of 14 republics had the own Communist Party, and only Russia did not have it. The Russian Communist Party has been created only in 1990.

Huh? So what party were all the "party members" in then?

Originally Posted by Johanna

Huh? So what party were all the "party members" in then?

The Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

AFAIK, national elites of Central Asia were very unhappy of this fact but they were unable to do anything.

Not entirely true. I just returned from Bishkek last week. I was there for their independence day. Kyrgyzstan was one of the first if not the first countries to declare independence from the Soviet Union after the Baltics. Its like July 21st (or somewhere right around there).

Also according to the Soviet Constitution, any republic was free to succeed at any time as long as 2/3 of the population voted and agreed to do so. When the leaders of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia met in December to form the CIS most if not all the republics had already declared Independence anyway. The Soviet flag was lowered for the last time on the 25th of Dec 1991 after the state dissolved itself. Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia were the last 3 (well maybe Turkmenistan too) to succeed.

Annnnyways. As I said, I was in Bishkek for about 2 months. Kyrgyzstan is an amazing country. Its no more poor than Rural Russia. Bishkek is a completely modern city. The Americans I was there with were "shocked" to see BMWs and Mercedes "In a 3rd world country". I didn't know how to express to them that "Maybe we aren't in a F**@%ing 3rd world country?!?!" without sounding extremely rude.

Sure there is poverty, but as I said, its no worse than the outskirts of any eastern European city or even places in central or south America.

True, there were A LOT of people who expressed their nostalgia for the Soviet Union. I heard stories of being able to fly from Bishkek to Moscow to watch a football game and fly back that night for only about 50 Rubles.

As far as how Russia is viewed there, from what I saw it was 99.9% favorable. I think Medvedev was on TV more than Bakiev (their president)was.

99.9% of the population understands Russian and 75% speaks it. The remainder are the nomads and farmers who live in the mountains and steppes who most likely didn't even speak Russian in soviet times either.

Any Russian movie or show you want to see you can find it there as well as music too. The people are probably the nicest in the world. I left there with many many souvenirs and gifts, some very very verrryyy expensive and none of which I paid for. A Kyrgy man would literally spend their entire months salary on a new friend just so they could eat a nice restaurant or have a place to stay, totally disregarding their own well-being. I felt guilty accepting a lot of their gifts but they insisted it was "от души" and they wanted absolutely nothing in return.

I also left with about 50 phone numbers and email addresses. Everyone from taxi drivers to airport workers.

I will DEFINITELY go back someday, and rest assured when I do I will be taken care of. I'm very grateful for my new friends I met there and recommend to anyone who is even slightly interested to check out the Stans. I met many Uzbeks and Kazakhs as well in my travels, so I'm sure their hospitality is the same throughout.

In the end, Borat say VERY NICE!!

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Kyrgyzstan was one of the first if not the first countries to declare independence from the Soviet Union after the Baltics. Its like July 21st (or somewhere right around there).

Wikipedia doesn't think so...
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%...82%D0%BE%D0%B2

As I remember those proclamations had very few relation to peoples will. (except baltic states maybe.) All referendums had been made postfactum. To live in the country when it is in the process of destruction is a specific feeling. Not much people were enough insane to enjoy it. Anyways that is over and we are forgetting...

Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia were the last 3 (well maybe Turkmenistan too) to succeed.

You will be surprized but Russia was among the first to proclaim its souveraineté (see the link). No way after Kyrgysia. The fish always stinks from the head downwards.

The Americans I was there with were "shocked" to see BMWs and Mercedes "In a 3rd world country".

Looks like they have no much experience concerning 3rd world countries. High class cars are usual for them. Unusual are medium class cars.

Dogboy182, I can say only one thing. My sister's husband's parents ^))) live in the Kyrgyzstan, near from issikul lake, and they couldn'd agree with you about successfull live in the Kyrgyzstan )))
The capital, maybe, is looks more or less good, but other places generally not.

Well the Kyrgyz sound charming.
I am quite fascinated by all the Central Asian countries - have been since childhood actually. It's a great thing that people can speak Russian there.

I just read they kicked out the American airbase there --- rofl, Europe listen and learn!

But it seems that these countries have problems getting on between themselves - that's a pity.

I just read they kicked out the American airbase there --- rofl, Europe listen and learn!

Well, I guess you read wrong. Cuz its still there.

Moi, misread? Never! Story here: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=14967

If you can't be fussed to follow the link, basically the story was that the Kirghiz upped the land rental and other fees by several hundred percent, to the point that America wasn't prepared to pay anymore. At the same time Russia offered to pay something that was acceptable to the Kirghiz and as a result there will now be a few Russian bases there (same as during Soviet times) but no US base. As I understand it,the Kirghiz were never too thrilled about the US base but they got an offer they couldn't refuse at the time of the invasion of Afghanistan. The Americans stayed on longer than the Kirghiz had expected and instead of telling them outright to leave they used the fees to make it impossible.

So even if the base is still there at the moment, it's only for a short while until it's been packed up...

Well, yes they talked about closing it because we've been there for about 8 years now. But then they just jacked up the rent price about 1000 percent.

That base is probably Kyrgyzstan's top money maker. Plus, the amount of Kyrgys who are employed on that base, trust me, its not going anywhere soon.

Why do you care anyways? The soldiers stationed there are not even allowed to go off base unless they are with someone high ranking to watch them and make sure they can't do anything stupid. They aren't allowed to drink or really even interact with the locals at all.

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Why do you care anyways? The soldiers stationed there are not even allowed to go off base unless they are with someone high ranking to watch them and make sure they can't do anything stupid. They aren't allowed to drink or really even interact with the locals at all.

What are they doing there then? Sust sit there playing poker?

Actually yeah, they do. And basketball and x-box and watch tv, like all other normal people.

Why do you care? They're not raping your women or stealing your vodka. Its not even your country. Я за 6 лет ни разу на этом форуме никого из Киргизии не видел. А те, с которыми я познакомился в Бишкеке им тоже было по*** что эти военные там делают на базе. Им больше интересно какие мы люди, что мы думаем о их стране, идт. They don't care, why do you?

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Actually yeah, they do. And basketball and x-box and watch tv, like all other normal people.

Why do you care? They're not raping your women or stealing your vodka. Its not even your country. Я за 6 лет ни разу на этом форуме никого из Киргизии не видел. А те, с которыми я познакомился в Бишкеке им тоже было по*** что эти военные там делают на базе. Им больше интересно какие мы люди, что мы думаем о их стране, идт. They don't care, why do you?

Well, I don't care either. Still it seems strange to me that your government is willing to pay them for doing absolutely nothing. Nothing useful at least. Not to mention the money they pay for the maintenance of that base. Isn't it a bit... well... wasteful?