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Thread: Russia - Turkey Relationships

  1. #1
    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
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    Russia - Turkey Relationships

    How the Russian Turkey relationshps will be affected based on your opinion after the shooting down of the Russian military plane.
    To put it differently: How important is Turkey for Russia?
    Turkey is important for Russia because it is one of the countries that passess the Nabucco oil pipelines.
    Now that Russia does not have serious allies in Europe (true?) due to the situation in Ukraine the Nabucco Stream was an important strategical tool.
    " Our oil does not need to pass from Ukraine ... we have Turkey".
    Do you still have Turkey?
    Do you want Turkey?
    Turkey is the number one tourist destination for Russians (or it was until today?).
    Do you affort to lose another partner?
    You didn't know that the majority of population of Turkey are illiterate Muslims who support islamic extremism? Really you were shocked for what it happend? You didn't know that the rulling party in Turkey is Islamistic? From the time you knew this why everyone in Russia supports economically Turkey? And when I say everyone I mean also the average Russian that enjoys the all inclusive benefits of the luxurious Turkish hotels?
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

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    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    From what I heard on the news today, the Russian military brass denies that the aircraft was shot down by Turkey military forces due to its breaching the Turkey airspace. They claimed that the fighter was above Syria and never violated any Turkish borders.
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

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    Почтенный гражданин Suobig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iCake View Post
    From what I heard on the news today, the Russian military brass denies that the aircraft was shot down by Turkey military forces due to its breaching the Turkey airspace. They claimed that the fighter was above Syria and never violated any Turkish borders.
    It's so off-topic. Is it here just for flame?
    I know it's "MR" not "ME", but still: fix my english mistakes, please!

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    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suobig View Post
    It's so off-topic. Is it here just for flame?
    Not more than this reply of yours. In fact, yours is completely off-topic. not mine.
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

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    Властелин maxmixiv's Avatar
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    Russia did not have serious allies in Europe before Ukrainian events.
    As I understand our President (I doubt I do it well), he is prepared to confront everyone, showing hostile attitude. Economics aside.

    Though he did not react so sharply in 2001:
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A...80%D0%B5%D0%BC

    You didn't know
    I have an impression that Turkey has more features of secular state than religious.
    Unofficially, we heard all kinds of rumors, but authorities was setting the perception of Turkey as "good partner".

    Overnight ritorics changed. As per today's morning, they are being labeled as "terrorists' cronies".
    Now, as I understand, Russia wants to hear apologies, then the crisis could be blown out. Otherwise both sides will encounter severe economic losses.

    Russians will continue to spend their vacations and money in Turkey, as long as it's relatively safe. (It's not easy to comprehend, I know, but many are longing for Egypt right now.)
    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio1986 View Post
    How the Russian Turkey relationshps will be affected based on your opinion after the shooting down of the Russian military plane.
    To put it differently: How important is Turkey for Russia?
    Turkey is important for Russia because it is one of the countries that passess the Nabucco oil pipelines.
    Now that Russia does not have serious allies in Europe (true?) due to the situation in Ukraine the Nabucco Stream was an important strategical tool.
    " Our oil does not need to pass from Ukraine ... we have Turkey".
    Do you still have Turkey?
    Do you want Turkey?
    Turkey is the number one tourist destination for Russians (or it was until today?).
    Do you affort to lose another partner?
    You didn't know that the majority of population of Turkey are illiterate Muslims who support islamic extremism? Really you were shocked for what it happend? You didn't know that the rulling party in Turkey is Islamistic? From the time you knew this why everyone in Russia supports economically Turkey? And when I say everyone I mean also the average Russian that enjoys the all inclusive benefits of the luxurious Turkish hotels?
    I think you confusing Nabucco with the Blue Stream. However Turkey still buys a lot of energy resources from Russia. Turkey also buys oil from ISIS, which shows that current Turkish government is somewhat an ally of ISIS.
    On a large scale Russia needs Turkey but who said that Russia needs current Turkish government?
    I think several things would happen:
    1. Russia would tighten up air security over Syria, which would make it really hard for Turkey to bomb Kurds. Theoretically Russia could make a no-fly zone in Syria but right now it's infeasible
    2. Russia would probably support Kurds.
    3. I suspect that Russia gonna try to discredit Turkish government in eyes of the world by exposing their ties with terrorists in Syria.

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    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
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    Blue Stream I meant. You are correct. Nabucco is against Russian interests.
    Because my country is a long-term victim of the imperialistic policies of Turkey, I would like just to inform that Turkey has long-term intrasigent strategies and principles, regardless the any government.
    The father of secularism and modern Turkey Nation (Kemal Ataturk) was the planner and performer of few of the worst genocides in modern history. So regardless of who is on the power, islamists or kemalists, the policies are exactly the same.
    The excellent relationship with USA was, is and it will be of high priority for Russia, especially now that Kurds will establish their own nation.
    Russia should slowly try to find other allies in the region, and I don't mean the Syrian President.
    Iran is a good start. Perhaps Lebanon, Jordan and Kurds.
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

  8. #8
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio1986 View Post
    Because my country is a long-term victim of the imperialistic policies of Turkey...
    Yes, we actually know that, and we were kind of ignoring that. Since the end of the Cold War where Turkey was one of the key figures (remember the missiles staged in Turkey?), the economic factors (i.e. the cheap stuff) became much more important. There's a good proverb in Russian "Своя рубашка ближе к телу".

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio1986 View Post
    You didn't know that the majority of population of Turkey are illiterate Muslims who support islamic extremism?
    We actually know that too as well as Erdogans' efforts (specifically his educational policies) to continue his 'crawling islamisation' of Turkey. But, there's so much more radical Islam elsewhere, why (have we figured) would Turkey be of any specific concern?

    All in all, I don't think the jet was shot because Turkey is specifically an Islamic-extremist country. You know, when I was in school in Moscow, some kids practiced the following tactics. You would walk calmly minding your business and some 7-year old would violently attack you for no reason hitting you a few times. So when you try to defend yourself and hit back, you'd see a few kids older then yourself immediately ganging up against you with: "Ah, you are bastard who are hitting those who are younger than you? We will teach you the right manners!" And then, they do teach you the right manners. So, Turkey is like that 7-year old..

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    Почтенный гражданин UhOhXplode's Avatar
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    To know where Russia-Turkey relations will go just watch Putin, Lavrov, Gazprom, and other leaders and businesses in Russia.

    1. Putin urged the Russian people to not hate on random Turks.
    2. Russia only advised the people not to have holidays in Turkey. It was not ordered.
    3. The sanctions were not that extreme.
    4. Gazprom did say it would continue the Turkish pipeline after tensions eased.

    It's obvious that the Russian side wants to continue good relations with Turkey... but not now. Later. Imo, the saber rattling will continue until they find a peaceful diplomatic solutions that makes both sides happy. Then relations will return to normal.That could take a lot of time but I just don't see Russia breaking ties with Turkey. It has too much historical significance and they are good trading partners.
    Лучше смерть, чем бесчестие! Тем временем: Вечно молодой, Вечно пьяный. - Смысловые Галлюцинации, Чартова дюжина 2015!
    Пожалуйста, исправьте мои ошибки. Спасибо.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UhOhXplode View Post
    To know where Russia-Turkey relations will go just watch Putin, Lavrov, Gazprom, and other leaders and businesses in Russia.

    1. Putin urged the Russian people to not hate on random Turks.
    Unfortunately Russian MSM are too enthusiastic painting Turkey black, I suspect some tensions are inevitable
    Quote Originally Posted by UhOhXplode View Post
    2. Russia only advised the people not to have holidays in Turkey. It was not ordered.
    Charter flights were banned, so cheapest way to get to Turkey does not exists anymore
    Quote Originally Posted by UhOhXplode View Post
    3. The sanctions were not that extreme.
    I think it is hard to say at the moment
    Quote Originally Posted by UhOhXplode View Post
    4. Gazprom did say it would continue the Turkish pipeline after tensions eased.
    Maybe, but all the talks are on hold and Turkey would need to do its first move, which is impossible at the moment
    Quote Originally Posted by UhOhXplode View Post
    Imo, the saber rattling will continue until they find a peaceful diplomatic solutions that makes both sides happy. Then relations will return to normal.That could take a lot of time but I just don't see Russia breaking ties with Turkey. It has too much historical significance and they are good trading partners.
    Russian wants Turkey to apologize officially. But Turkey cannot do that because:
    1. It would show Erdogan's weakness and would be very much against Turkish national pride.
    2. Would mean that NATO country have made a military mistake and might threaten NATO's existence

  11. #11
    Властелин maxmixiv's Avatar
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    Russian wants Turkey to apologize officially.
    Or maybe, wanted more involvement
    Now that S-400 in Syria, there is hope to gradually soothe the conflict. We need something to hope in.
    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxmixiv View Post
    Or maybe, wanted more involvement
    Now that S-400 in Syria, there is hope to gradually soothe the conflict. We need something to hope in.
    I'm not sure how S-400 could be of any help. If Russia would use it, that would add more brown substance to the fan.
    As long as there are several military groups involved in fighting terrorists in Syria(or rather deciding the future of Syria) there is always be a chance of military escalation that could potentially lead to a world war.

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    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    151207082511_pzrk_624x351_ntv_nocredit.jpg

    Турция возмущена снимком россиянина с ПЗ

    According to the BBC, citing the Turkish channel NTV, Russians continue to military insult Turkey. First, Russians were crossing Turkish borders and now they are violating the rules of crossing the Bosphorous Strait! Of course, Turkey cannot allow such violations of the international laws and has it full right to military actions. So, all Russian planes which crossed Turkish borders were supposed to be shot, and all Russian ships which have PhotoShop-like dark figures with indistinguishable features with weapons directed towards Turkey should, I guess, be supposed to be banned from entering the Bosphorous? A good job for a 7-year old..

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    Insult? Then turkey women will bury their men - this will be insult. Now it is joke and fun. Erdogan must prepare his wife to bury his body. And have many fun.
    nsame2017 likes this.

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    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex80 View Post
    Insult? Then turkey women will bury their men - this will be insult. Now it is joke and fun. Erdogan must prepare his wife to bury his body. And have many fun.
    Well, that is pretty much what Turkish are saying as well about Russia and Putin, I guess..

  16. #16
    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio1986 View Post
    Do you still have Turkey?
    Do you want Turkey?
    Turkey is the number one tourist destination for Russians (or it was until today?).
    Do you affort to lose another partner?
    You didn't know that the majority of population of Turkey are illiterate Muslims who support islamic extremism? Really you were shocked for what it happend? You didn't know that the rulling party in Turkey is Islamistic? From the time you knew this why everyone in Russia supports economically Turkey? And when I say everyone I mean also the average Russian that enjoys the all inclusive benefits of the luxurious Turkish hotels?
    Obviously you cannot afford to lose another partner even if this country is the birth-place of the majority of terrorists.
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

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