Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio
Quote Originally Posted by Rahul
Quote Originally Posted by z80
What would a system that has the economic purity of a socialist state, and the individual freedoms that democracy claims to have? hmmm.
Ahh yes, the same freedom that gets you killed for speaking against your leader.
Like Martin Luther King, for example?
Martin Luther King was shot by a racist individual, not by a government or society as a whole. If you recall, those same radicalists shot Kennedy too showing they were acting in their own will. You will find the same sort of racist groups in every country, even today.



Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio
The same freedom that forbids you from selling your own products.
What kind of "products" do you mean? Agricultural and minor industrial cooperatives perfectly existed in USSR, and were able to sell own production.
Yah but besides that, what else did you get? What was that saying in Russia back in the '80's? Something like "In an assembly line in a factory, products that work on the first trial go to members of the Politburo. If something is found to be faulty, it is fixed and given to the military officials. If it is still faulty, it is given to the public." Besides that, there were constant shortages of goods because of the inefficient quota system. Demands would constantly fluctuate meaning certain goods were either in very short supply or wasted because of extremely low demand. In capitalism, however, you have producers competing to give people what they want making the system much much more efficient.




Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio
But, strangely, in USSR, as opposite to modern "independent" states, nobody was hugry, thirsty or homeless.
That's very odd. What do you call the Great Famine of 1932? And having a home isn't very useful in Russia if you don't have any money for running water and efficient heating.




Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio
Quote Originally Posted by Rahul
Why did people have to be forced in to prevent mass emigration?
How they were "forced"?
Beginning from 70's, emigration from USSR wasn't big problem for almost anyone. Millions emigrated.
BTW, after seeing a *real* western life for a couple of months, many came to soviet embassies around the world, pleading they want to return. But very few were allowed back (and this is right, IMHO).
Why do you think the Soviets built the Berlin Wall overnight? It wasn't to keep rats out. Why do you think hockey players defected so often when playing in international tournaments? Why did Igor Souvenski defect in Canada? Can you find me a source that can confirm your claim that millions wanted to return to the Soviet Union?



Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio
Its because the economic infrastructure left by Communism was so inefficient and crippled and useless that sooner or later, it had to bite back.
Almost all people, who are rich in modern Russia, must thank "inefficient, crippled and useless economic infrastructure left by communism" for that. Oh, and thay also must not forget to thank handful of venal "reformers", which helped them to seize and steal the people's property.
Well obviously. When the people of a country have all their property seized by communism, do they expect to be rich when capitalism returns?

Communism goes against the nature of human beings. Throughout our history and evolution, people have owned possessions, traded privately and owned land. Communsim takes these possessions away, makes it illegal for you to sell goods, takes away land plots and gives it to the state, suppression of free speach(which is why only one party was allowed).

The problem is communism is an extreme side on your value scale. When capitalism and right wing politics go to an extreme, you get fascism. Fascism leads to high unemployment, alienation, boom-slump cycle. However, the West is not a fascist society. Socialism has never truly existed in Russia, and we have yet to see it being practiced in a country as a whole. In India, there is a state called Kerala, which is where I was from. Kerala has a socialist government which was actually elected by voters, not through some revolution, and I have seen some of the benefits of it. You have the highest literacy rate in all of India, about 99%, you get many parties, freedom of speach and good social programs. Therefore, although I am not a far left supporter(communist) and I am not a far right supporter(fascist) either. I prefer a more liberal centre-right position on a value spectrum.