Thread: Is Russia a democracy? Плюс то же о некоторых других странах

There is no such thing as a perfect democracy.

The actual democratic system in Russia, according to many, is is superior to that in plain "first past the post" democracies such as the UK and USA. It's more modern, taking into account 20th century research in political science, while the UK system for instance, is ancient, and geared towards a society that existed 300 years ago.

The question is whether the system is adhered to, how much corruption there is in the system, and whether the population of Russia at large, cares about any of this.

There are various levels of corruption in most democracies, whether it is legitimate, legal through lobbying, or illegal through bribes.

Then, there is the matter of who votes, and how.

If under 70% actually vote, is the decision legitimate?
Should everybody be forced to vote, like in Australia?
Should only people with a permanent, registered address be allowed to vote, like in the UK? Should prisoners be prevented from voting, as happens in the UK?
What if a country has a substantial population of non-citizens?
What about people who are too uneducated and frankly, stupid, to make an informed choice? People who choose to "sell" their vote?

So, my question would be; is Russia democratic, in comparison to what country?

..in comparison to the USA? To the USSR? EU? or the Greek ideal?

The concept of democracy as per Greek political philosophers was only intended to be applied in small city-states, and given to free men (as opposed to slaves, women). That's all they ever envisaged. Nobody had any notion of applying it to a geographically large country, or a country with a huge population with varying levels of interests and education.

Any definition of democracy since then, is just a local interpretation/adaptation of what democracy could/should be, according to constitution writers.
If election themselves are proof of democracy - well any country might hold them, and they might offer multiple choices and secrecy of the ballot, without being perceived as democracies.

Afghanistan is a "democracy", instated by none less than the USA. Iraq too.....

Originally Posted by Hanna

So, my question would be; is Russia democratic, in comparison to what country?

..in comparison to the USA? To the USSR? EU? or the Greek ideal?

I will try to keep the position of the vector, the question was probably too simple, cos I am interested in what people think (mostly what non-Russians think, as I can generally anticipate what Russians could say): Do you think that Russia's democracy or not? - that's the implication.
as for your comparison introduction, Hanna, here are the brief comments:
in comparison to the USA? - NO
To the USSR? - YES
EU? - NO
or the Greek ideal? - The assumption in the beginning was that the modern sense of the word is considered. Thanks for reminding of the 'city-states' and further implication that the Ancient Greece idea was local and practical for governing of a city-state not a country (my suggestion was that we don't need the true and pure original Hellenic meaning, and apply the modern meaning, which is still not defined explicitly here, but for now let's see what people think if the question remains as it is).

Originally Posted by alexsms

brief comments:
in comparison to the USA? - NO
To the USSR? - YES
EU? - NO
or the Greek ideal?

Это-то и настораживает, что ответы должны быть краткими (для нажатия кнопки "пуск" другого и не нужно), а демократия остаётся необсуждаемым идеалом (как христианство в средние века).
Если же предлагается просто игра в четыре слова (Россия, демократия, да, нет), то это не интересно.

Originally Posted by Юрка

Это-то и настораживает, что ответы должны быть краткими.

НЕ должны,
Любые ответы могут быть интересны участникам.

Originally Posted by alexsms

I will try to keep the position of the vector, the question was probably too simple, cos I am interested in what people think (mostly what non-Russians think, as I can generally anticipate what Russians could say): Do you think that Russia's democracy or not? - that's the implication.
as for your comparison introduction, Hanna, here are the brief comments:
in comparison to the USA? - NO
To the USSR? - YES
EU? - NO
or the Greek ideal? - The assumption in the beginning was that the modern sense of the word is considered. Thanks for reminding of the 'city-states' and further implication that the Ancient Greece idea was local and practical for governing of a city-state not a country (my suggestion was that we don't need the true and pure original Hellenic meaning, and apply the modern meaning, which is still not defined explicitly here, but for now let's see what people think if the question remains as it is).

I don't think Russia is less democratic than any of those examples, with the exception, maybe, of the USSR.

There are some VERY serious issues with the democracy in the EU, which is mainly run by the Commission, a meritocracy (not elected) which is very much an "old-boys" club from various networks and groups with political power across the continent. The Parliament is democratic but does not have a lot of power, less than half of Europeans even vote in the election, or understand how it works.
Additionally; the EU was set up as a free-trade area, not as a democratic "state", although that's what it's now merging into.

The Commission is very heavily lobbied by corporate interests, with unlimited funds (=corruption with a thin veneer of respectability). I actually have old friends who work at various bureacracy jobs in Brussels and everyone, even the insiders and believers in the EU as a concept (which includes myself) are well aware of the disturbing lack of democracy - open to abuse.

The United States as a democracy suffers from some very major flaws as a credible democracy, as no doubts all educated and open-eyed Americans are aware. Some of these are similar to the EU. Since the thread is about Russia, let's not get into it, but like I said: It's well known within the subject of Political Science, just for starters.

I would hold up SWITZERLAND as a country that is very close to the democratic ideal. If you are interested, I can explain why. It is probably the most "democratic" country in Europe, at least, for a number of reasons.

Russia and the USA / EU simply have different issues as democracies.
While Russia has more obvious corruption, the same thing occurs in Western Countries under the guise of "Corporate hospitality", lobbying etc.
Same-same, no difference...

As soon as you get rid of open corruption, and widespread contempt for democracy, that seems to exist in Russia, you'll be no worse at all than any other so called democracy.

In terms of police brutality etc - I don't see you being much worse off than people in the US, UK. Just look at Occupy movement how it was treated, terror laws, NSA spying, Wikileaks persecution, and the clank-down on any anti-globalist demonstration or movement. They kick drunks too (I've seen police in two Western countries do it) and sometimes beat up arrested people, although it's getting less common.

So my answer is that Russia is only very marginally less democratic than the countries you mentioned, if at all.

The issue I would have, is with corruption/bribes as a threat to democracy.
India, the world's largest democracy has the same problem, and countless others. So Russia is not alone and there is no need to judge yourself harshly about it. Just try to stop corruption...

In terms of foreign policy, I am having increasing respect for Russia as a moderate force - recently did a fantastic job with Syria.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I would hold up SWITZERLAND as a country that is very close to the democratic ideal. If you are interested, I can explain why. It is probably the most "democratic" country in Europe, at least, for a number of reasons.

Thanks for the offer, Hanna. Please explain why this country if you can.