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Thread: Revolutions in the Middle East....

  1. #1
    Hanna
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    Revolutions in the Middle East....

    What's everyone thinking about the Arab revolutions?
    I have been watching it a bit on and off recently. I watch:

    1) BBC
    2) Al Jazeera
    3) Russia Today
    4) Press TV
    5) France 24

    (These are all available on satellite/cable TV or with Zattoo or LiveStation over the internet)


    Each giving a different perspective! With such different perspectives, you can probably get pretty close to the truth.

    There is an interesting parallel to the events in Eastern Europe in 1990. Things just spreading by themselves from country to country. A real revolution is surely something very powerful! Funny how some countries have them often, and some countries never!

    I am torn between my feelings of loyalty towards Israel and my sympathy for the cause of the Arabs (mostly the fact that they want to get rid of corrupt governments).

    What do others think?

  2. #2
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    A new corrupt government will replace the old one. That's the nature of all revolutions. Governments are ALWAYS corrupt, no matter where.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  3. #3
    Властелин
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    What's everyone thinking about the Arab revolutions?
    I have been watching it a bit on and off recently. I watch:

    1) BBC
    2) Al Jazeera
    3) Russia Today
    4) Press TV
    5) France 24

    (These are all available on cable TV or online with Zattoo or Livestation.)


    Each giving a different perspective! With 3 such different perspectives, you can probably get pretty close to the truth.

    There is an interesting parallel to the events in Eastern Europe in 1990. Things just spreading by themselves from country to country: No-one has been funding it from abroad and very few saw it coming.. A real revolution is surely something very powerful! Funny how some countries have them often, and some countries never!

    I am torn between my feelings of loyalty towards Israel and my sympathy for the cause of the Arabs (mostly the fact that they want to get rid of corrupt governments and have more social justice).

    What do others think?
    Do any of the sources you mentioned report this incident:

    CBS complicit in news coverup - BostonHerald.com

    It seems the US "media" does not want to be bothered reporting all the facts. Again.

    Scott

  4. #4
    Почтенный гражданин Misha Tal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    4) Press TV
    Just stopped over to give you a friendly advice: don't watch Press TV. Or if you really want to watch it, don't believe a word of it. It's essentially the English-language tribune of the current regime of Iran, and is therefore a pile of compact, high-density crap.
    "If in the end, Misha, you are destined to lose this game, there is no need for the reason to be cowardice!"

  5. #5
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Tal View Post
    Just stopped over to give you a friendly advice: don't watch Press TV. Or if you really want to watch it, don't believe a word of it. It's essentially the English-language tribune of the current regime of Iran, and is therefore a pile of compact, high-density crap.
    Misha, how the things are going in Iran?
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  6. #6
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Hey, Misha, welcome back! Do you feel like the government loses support?

  7. #7
    Завсегдатай sperk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortheether View Post

    CBS complicit in news coverup - BostonHerald.com

    It seems the US "media" does not want to be bothered reporting all the facts. Again.

    Scott
    With all due respect to this woman and what may have happened to her, this story smells fishy to me.
    Кому - нары, кому - Канары.

  8. #8
    Hanna
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    @Mischa
    PressTV is actually the ONLY news channel that I know of, that is reporting the news in English, from a seriously alternative perspective. They are filling an imporartant niche that no other channel fills right now. That's why I think it's worth watching. The Iranian connection is almost irrelevant from this perspective. It gives an alternative view, particularly on the recent events in the Middle East.

    People can judge for themselves: http://www.presstv.ir/live/

    I keep a critical perspective when watching them though - and it does not mean I am a supporter of the Iranian regime (I am neither in favour, nor against). I have no illusions on who pays for PressTV - and I realise that they will never give a fair view of the Iranian opposition.

    They actually almost never mention Iranian internal politics though; The things I can recall are a very complex story about how different Iranian government bodies had difficulties working together and hints at corruption. Plus there was a report about how Iranian IT specialists managed to disable the computer virus released to target its nuclear program. Finally on the day of the Egyptian revolution, per PressTV, one hundred thousand people were on the streets of Tehran celebrating the Islamic revolution, and supporting the Egyptians. Judging from the footage, there were definitely a lot of people there, demonstrating. A few days later, Western media were reporting massive anti-government demos in Tehran - although there were no reliable pictures since Iran had banned foreign press from covering the demos. PressTV said it was a few hundred people and showed pictures of vandalism. Seems to me, the truth is probably somewhere in between.

    Other interesting points:
    They are not in any way trying to preach Islam to their viewers.
    If anything, they are quite strongly Left/socialist biased. Their reports from Europe are about workers, immigrants, environment issues, the anti-war movement etc. Same with their coverage from the US. They cover people, causes and movements that no other channels report on - important news. As a European, I can confirm that there is no hype or excessive agenda in what they are showing/saying about European current affairs.
    They also cover really interesting human interest stories from East Asia, Africa, South America. Not sure where they are getting their material or ideas from, but these stories in particular constitute very good journalism.

    In terms of serious bias; they really don't like US foreign policy, or anything at all about Israel. This is extremely obvious. Can't help but wondering what they would like to happen with Israel and the Israelis.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sperk View Post
    With all due respect to this woman and what may have happened to her, this story smells fishy to me.
    I posted that because here in the USA we hear how "peaceful" the protesters are in Egypt. That link shows otherwise so they don't report it. Why are there reporters with agendas?

    Scott

  10. #10
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortheether View Post
    Do any of the sources you mentioned report this incident:

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1317384]CBS complicit in news coverup - BostonHerald.com[/url]
    It seems the US "media" does not want to be bothered reporting all the facts. Again.
    Scott
    I am not familiar with CBS and I do not approve of this woman getting assaulted. It's disgraceful and a very bad reflection on Egyptian men.

    Nobody is saying what actually happened to her. Did she get raped or what actually happened. Sexual assault can mean almost anything - hard to imagine they tore off her clothes and raped her in the middle of a public gathering.

    One comment though: This is similar to those moslems who walk around in Europe in traditional clothes and then complain that they are being discriminated or whatever. When in Rome, do as the Romans... This reporter knew that she'd be spending the day in a very excited crowd of Middle Eastern men.. From a different culture, with a different view on women. Why didn't she cover up a bit? If she'd dressed a bit more like a local woman, this probably would have happened. If she is such a "seasoned Middle East reporter" it's surprising that she didn't. Just as a sign of respect towards local culture and religion, and towards the country she was visiting - and to make sure she'd not attract unwanted attention. It's common sense.

  11. #11
    Почтенный гражданин Misha Tal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    Misha, how the things are going in Iran?
    The "things" are somewhat quiet right now, but that will most probably change within a couple of hours. Tomorrow, February 20th (Esfand 1st in the Persian calendar) is the D-day. Probably it's going to be the same story we've seen in many other occasions in the last two years: the streets will be packed with the anti-riot police, and with members of the "Basij" militia. These Basij guys used to be more or less recognizable: all of them were bearded and dressed like villagers. But now, they've learned how to shave. That makes the "things" a bit tougher: you can't say at a glance whether the guy in front of you is an ordinary citizen or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    Hey, Misha, welcome back! Do you feel like the government loses support?
    I don't know what exactly you mean by "losing support". If you're talking about what Galileo called "the ignorant and superstitious masses", well, there's no cure for their ignorance. So they will go on supporting a regime that's murdering it's own people in the name of Islam.

    The Iranian "Green Movement" receives much less international attention than it should, for the obvious reason that the Western media is not allowed to cover the events here. [Compare with the events on the Tahrir Square in Cairo, which were on TV 24/7 for about two weeks.]

    This is what the "support" stems from: a semi-traditional society whose first priority is to stay alive and doesn't care much about how to live, with religious beliefs that are easy to take advantage of, and suffering from the common disease of all traditional societies, i.e. fear of change. These things can't be changed in one day, and that's why I think a second revolution is not the way to go.

    @ Hanna: You're right. Press TV has no serious rival among English-language channels. In my opinion, the most reliable news channel that covers Iran is BBC Persian, but of course that's not in English. I also have to admit that I don't watch Press TV on a regular basis, so maybe I shouldn't have condemned it like that. But, I've noticed a very tangible pro-Government bias in their views.

    The situation in Iran is very tense, the two sides have their campaigns, and everyone ultimately listens to channels that say what he wants to hear. Press TV certainly doesn't say what I want to hear.
    =========================

    Finally, I have to say this: the recent events in Egypt and Tunisia (and the consequences that followed right across the Arab world) have radically changed my opinion of Arabs. I used to think they're totally unable (and unwilling) to stand for a common goal. I was dead wrong. Although I'm a bit skeptical about the future, the main point is that Arabs have finally awakened. [But then again, Egyptians are about as much Arab as, say, Colombians are Spanish...]
    "If in the end, Misha, you are destined to lose this game, there is no need for the reason to be cowardice!"

  12. #12
    Завсегдатай sperk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha Tal View Post
    I used to think they're totally unable (and unwilling) to stand for a common goal. I was dead wrong.
    I don't see any common (pan-Arab) goal going on here, each country's doing their own thing.
    Кому - нары, кому - Канары.

  13. #13
    Почтенный гражданин Misha Tal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sperk View Post
    I don't see any common (pan-Arab) goal going on here.
    Neither do I. I was alluding to national movements in Arab countries, not a pan-Arabic goal.
    "If in the end, Misha, you are destined to lose this game, there is no need for the reason to be cowardice!"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    I am not familiar with CBS and I do not approve of this woman getting assaulted. It's disgraceful and a very bad reflection on Egyptian men.

    Nobody is saying what actually happened to her. Did she get raped or what actually happened. Sexual assault can mean almost anything - hard to imagine they tore off her clothes and raped her in the middle of a public gathering.

    One comment though: This is similar to those moslems who walk around in Europe in traditional clothes and then complain that they are being discriminated or whatever. When in Rome, do as the Romans... This reporter knew that she'd be spending the day in a very excited crowd of Middle Eastern men.. From a different culture, with a different view on women. Why didn't she cover up a bit? If she'd dressed a bit more like a local woman, this probably would have happened. If she is such a "seasoned Middle East reporter" it's surprising that she didn't. Just as a sign of respect towards local culture and religion, and towards the country she was visiting - and to make sure she'd not attract unwanted attention. It's common sense.
    We Americans are used to people with different garbs and would expect if dressed differently than others would still be treated normally. She learned the hard way that others do not agree with that.

  15. #15
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortheether View Post
    We Americans are used to people with different garbs and would expect if dressed differently than others would still be treated normally.
    Well.... apart for the fact that anyone who turned up in the USA looking like a
    Taliban, Iranian mullah or covering their hair and face would be treated like a terrorist and completely ostracized... in most places in the US. Not to mention the fact that he'd be lucky to clear airport security in under 3 hours.

    I heard on the BBC that a US airport carried out a body search on an Indian member of parliament travelling on an official engagement. Only because she was wearing a headscarf; there was nothing at all suspicious about her, and she was there on official business, representing India. She said she had never been so humiliated in her life.

    And apart from that, in the USA people even get bullied for coming to school with the wrong jeans, if films are to be trusted.

    And of course, someone who dressed like a homeless person could expect to get thrown out of top range department stores or restaurants.

  16. #16
    Завсегдатай rockzmom's Avatar
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    Don't usually watch 60 Minutes; however, I wanted to watch the piece they had on The King's Speech (see movie thread) and so I ended up watching this interesting piece as well:

    Tunisia and the spark that launched uprisings

    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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  17. #17
    Властелин
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Well.... apart for the fact that anyone who turned up in the USA looking like a
    Taliban, Iranian mullah or covering their hair and face would be treated like a terrorist and completely ostracized... in most places in the US. Not to mention the fact that he'd be lucky to clear airport security in under 3 hours.

    I heard on the BBC that a US airport carried out a body search on an Indian member of parliament travelling on an official engagement. Only because she was wearing a headscarf; there was nothing at all suspicious about her, and she was there on official business, representing India. She said she had never been so humiliated in her life.

    And apart from that, in the USA people even get bullied for coming to school with the wrong jeans, if films are to be trusted.

    And of course, someone who dressed like a homeless person could expect to get thrown out of top range department stores or restaurants.
    Wow, I guess you truly hate the US! Like you or your friends happened to fall victims to this country...

  18. #18
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    Wow, I guess you truly hate the US! Like you or your friends happened to fall victims to this country...
    It's would be o.k., but no, I don't think so. I believe Hanna just takes very close to her heart every pain of underprivileged or unfortunate in life.I am somewhat with her on this. They'd call us bleeding heart liberals.
    Deborski likes this.

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    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    Wow, I guess you truly hate the US! Like you or your friends happened to fall victims to this country...
    Why do you hate America? - this is the only correct response to any statement which implies the United States might be responsible for anything negative.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  20. #20
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    It's would be o.k., but no, I don't think so. I believe Hanna just takes very close to her heart every pain of underprivileged or unfortunate in life.I am somewhat with her on this. They'd call us bleeding heart liberals.
    That's exactly right! Finally someone with the same opinion as me!

    haha; yes. They have a choice though; they can just stop it... it's *supposed* (touted as) the ultimate democracy... Vote off those leaders that make America unpopular. Anyway, there is a difference between individual Americans and the foreign policy of the nation.

    @Eric: If Americans were exploited, tricked and manipulated, some other country that ripped off its' natural resoources, put a phony dictator in charge of the US in the interest of "stability"... and started propagandize against Americans... And they then invaded the US.. or simply set up military bases in the US, that Americans didn't want on their territory... THEN I WOULD SUPPORT THE AMERICANS and critisize whoever did this against them.

    And we in Europe are not much better than the US; particularly not Britain! Guess what David Cameron, the British prime minister is doing at the moment? He is attending an arms trade fair in Abu Dhabi, with the leaders of the British weapons industry! Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up, it's absolutely unbelieveable! (Even if it was scheduled for months - he should have cancelled in light of recent events.) And much of the problems in North Africa stems from the colonialism of France, Italy and the UK.

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