Thread: Revolutions in the Middle East....

What's everyone thinking about the Arab revolutions?
I have been watching it a bit on and off recently. I watch:

1) BBC
2) Al Jazeera
3) Russia Today
4) Press TV
5) France 24

(These are all available on satellite/cable TV or with Zattoo or LiveStation over the internet)

Each giving a different perspective! With such different perspectives, you can probably get pretty close to the truth.

There is an interesting parallel to the events in Eastern Europe in 1990. Things just spreading by themselves from country to country. A real revolution is surely something very powerful! Funny how some countries have them often, and some countries never!

I am torn between my feelings of loyalty towards Israel and my sympathy for the cause of the Arabs (mostly the fact that they want to get rid of corrupt governments).

What do others think?

A new corrupt government will replace the old one. That's the nature of all revolutions. Governments are ALWAYS corrupt, no matter where.

I agree with you. It reminds me a history: you have a disgusting mouse living at your house and ,in order to get rid of it , you have a brilliant insight: have a cat. Then the cat put the mouse out ,but....now you have a disgusting cat! In order to get rid of the cat , you solve to find a bulldog! Then you throw the dog there , solved but....now you have a disgusting Dog. then you throw there.....a tiger! Then you throw.... An elephant! And it destroys your house....and to get ride of the elephant? Hhuuuum let's look for a mouse!! ))))

Originally Posted by Hanna

What's everyone thinking about the Arab revolutions?
I have been watching it a bit on and off recently. I watch:

1) BBC
2) Al Jazeera
3) Russia Today
4) Press TV
5) France 24

(These are all available on cable TV or online with Zattoo or Livestation.)

Each giving a different perspective! With 3 such different perspectives, you can probably get pretty close to the truth.

There is an interesting parallel to the events in Eastern Europe in 1990. Things just spreading by themselves from country to country: No-one has been funding it from abroad and very few saw it coming.. A real revolution is surely something very powerful! Funny how some countries have them often, and some countries never!

I am torn between my feelings of loyalty towards Israel and my sympathy for the cause of the Arabs (mostly the fact that they want to get rid of corrupt governments and have more social justice).

What do others think?

Do any of the sources you mentioned report this incident:

CBS complicit in news coverup - BostonHerald.com

It seems the US "media" does not want to be bothered reporting all the facts. Again.

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

CBS complicit in news coverup - BostonHerald.com

It seems the US "media" does not want to be bothered reporting all the facts. Again.

Scott

With all due respect to this woman and what may have happened to her, this story smells fishy to me.

Originally Posted by sperk

With all due respect to this woman and what may have happened to her, this story smells fishy to me.

I posted that because here in the USA we hear how "peaceful" the protesters are in Egypt. That link shows otherwise so they don't report it. Why are there reporters with agendas?

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

Do any of the sources you mentioned report this incident:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1317384]CBS complicit in news coverup - BostonHerald.com[/url]
It seems the US "media" does not want to be bothered reporting all the facts. Again.
Scott

I am not familiar with CBS and I do not approve of this woman getting assaulted. It's disgraceful and a very bad reflection on Egyptian men.

Nobody is saying what actually happened to her. Did she get raped or what actually happened. Sexual assault can mean almost anything - hard to imagine they tore off her clothes and raped her in the middle of a public gathering.

One comment though: This is similar to those moslems who walk around in Europe in traditional clothes and then complain that they are being discriminated or whatever. When in Rome, do as the Romans... This reporter knew that she'd be spending the day in a very excited crowd of Middle Eastern men.. From a different culture, with a different view on women. Why didn't she cover up a bit? If she'd dressed a bit more like a local woman, this probably would have happened. If she is such a "seasoned Middle East reporter" it's surprising that she didn't. Just as a sign of respect towards local culture and religion, and towards the country she was visiting - and to make sure she'd not attract unwanted attention. It's common sense.

Originally Posted by Hanna

I am not familiar with CBS and I do not approve of this woman getting assaulted. It's disgraceful and a very bad reflection on Egyptian men.

Nobody is saying what actually happened to her. Did she get raped or what actually happened. Sexual assault can mean almost anything - hard to imagine they tore off her clothes and raped her in the middle of a public gathering.

One comment though: This is similar to those moslems who walk around in Europe in traditional clothes and then complain that they are being discriminated or whatever. When in Rome, do as the Romans... This reporter knew that she'd be spending the day in a very excited crowd of Middle Eastern men.. From a different culture, with a different view on women. Why didn't she cover up a bit? If she'd dressed a bit more like a local woman, this probably would have happened. If she is such a "seasoned Middle East reporter" it's surprising that she didn't. Just as a sign of respect towards local culture and religion, and towards the country she was visiting - and to make sure she'd not attract unwanted attention. It's common sense.

We Americans are used to people with different garbs and would expect if dressed differently than others would still be treated normally. She learned the hard way that others do not agree with that.

Originally Posted by fortheether

We Americans are used to people with different garbs and would expect if dressed differently than others would still be treated normally.

Well.... apart for the fact that anyone who turned up in the USA looking like a
Taliban, Iranian mullah or covering their hair and face would be treated like a terrorist and completely ostracized... in most places in the US. Not to mention the fact that he'd be lucky to clear airport security in under 3 hours.

I heard on the BBC that a US airport carried out a body search on an Indian member of parliament travelling on an official engagement. Only because she was wearing a headscarf; there was nothing at all suspicious about her, and she was there on official business, representing India. She said she had never been so humiliated in her life.

And apart from that, in the USA people even get bullied for coming to school with the wrong jeans, if films are to be trusted.

And of course, someone who dressed like a homeless person could expect to get thrown out of top range department stores or restaurants.

Don't usually watch 60 Minutes; however, I wanted to watch the piece they had on The King's Speech (see movie thread) and so I ended up watching this interesting piece as well:

Tunisia and the spark that launched uprisings

Originally Posted by Hanna

Well.... apart for the fact that anyone who turned up in the USA looking like a
Taliban, Iranian mullah or covering their hair and face would be treated like a terrorist and completely ostracized... in most places in the US. Not to mention the fact that he'd be lucky to clear airport security in under 3 hours.

I heard on the BBC that a US airport carried out a body search on an Indian member of parliament travelling on an official engagement. Only because she was wearing a headscarf; there was nothing at all suspicious about her, and she was there on official business, representing India. She said she had never been so humiliated in her life.

And apart from that, in the USA people even get bullied for coming to school with the wrong jeans, if films are to be trusted.

And of course, someone who dressed like a homeless person could expect to get thrown out of top range department stores or restaurants.

Wow, I guess you truly hate the US! Like you or your friends happened to fall victims to this country...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Well.... apart for the fact that anyone who turned up in the USA looking like a
Taliban, Iranian mullah or covering their hair and face would be treated like a terrorist and completely ostracized... in most places in the US. Not to mention the fact that he'd be lucky to clear airport security in under 3 hours.

I heard on the BBC that a US airport carried out a body search on an Indian member of parliament travelling on an official engagement. Only because she was wearing a headscarf; there was nothing at all suspicious about her, and she was there on official business, representing India. She said she had never been so humiliated in her life.

And apart from that, in the USA people even get bullied for coming to school with the wrong jeans, if films are to be trusted.

And of course, someone who dressed like a homeless person could expect to get thrown out of top range department stores or restaurants.

Hanna,
Are you a comedy writer? If not you should be because that crap you wrote is funny.

Scott

Originally Posted by Hanna

in the USA people even get bullied for coming to school with the wrong jeans, if films are to be trusted.

If films are to be trusted, Will Smith & Co. have saved the world from the hostile aliens in the recent past. I wonder how could you forget his deed so quickly...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Nobody is saying what actually happened to her. Did she get raped or what actually happened. Sexual assault can mean almost anything - hard to imagine they tore off her clothes and raped her in the middle of a public gathering.

Yes they raped her and more! You are so naive. It's all recorded on camera. Those that have seen the footage and witnesses have reported the following. ... ( Deleted. Too graphic. L. )

Originally Posted by Hanna

One comment though: This is similar to those moslems who walk around in Europe in traditional clothes and then complain that they are being discriminated or whatever. When in Rome, do as the Romans... This reporter knew that she'd be spending the day in a very excited crowd of Middle Eastern men.. From a different culture, with a different view on women. Why didn't she cover up a bit? If she'd dressed a bit more like a local woman, this probably would have happened. If she is such a "seasoned Middle East reporter" it's surprising that she didn't. Just as a sign of respect towards local culture and religion, and towards the country she was visiting - and to make sure she'd not attract unwanted attention. It's common sense.

So, you leftie, feminist types conveniently blame the victim when it suits you! I'm not surprised. But I partially agree with you but not for the same reasons. Lara Logan is married and has children. She had no business taking on an obviously dangerous assignment like this and CBS had no business sending her there. Her duty is to her children and family not her career. It was foolish feminist political correctness and pride that made her think that she was invincible. I couldn't care less about her but the entire situation affirms by belief that Islam has done nothing to lift Egyptians out of depravity and Egypt is "finished". You will see an Islamic dictatorship replace Mubarack's dictatorship now and that will mean even worse things for the rest of the world to come.

Originally Posted by Hanna

4) Press TV

Just stopped over to give you a friendly advice: don't watch Press TV. Or if you really want to watch it, don't believe a word of it. It's essentially the English-language tribune of the current regime of Iran, and is therefore a pile of compact, high-density crap.

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

Just stopped over to give you a friendly advice: don't watch Press TV. Or if you really want to watch it, don't believe a word of it. It's essentially the English-language tribune of the current regime of Iran, and is therefore a pile of compact, high-density crap.

Misha, how the things are going in Iran?

Hey, Misha, welcome back! Do you feel like the government loses support?

@Mischa
PressTV is actually the ONLY news channel that I know of, that is reporting the news in English, from a seriously alternative perspective. They are filling an imporartant niche that no other channel fills right now. That's why I think it's worth watching. The Iranian connection is almost irrelevant from this perspective. It gives an alternative view, particularly on the recent events in the Middle East.

People can judge for themselves: http://www.presstv.ir/live/

I keep a critical perspective when watching them though - and it does not mean I am a supporter of the Iranian regime (I am neither in favour, nor against). I have no illusions on who pays for PressTV - and I realise that they will never give a fair view of the Iranian opposition.

They actually almost never mention Iranian internal politics though; The things I can recall are a very complex story about how different Iranian government bodies had difficulties working together and hints at corruption. Plus there was a report about how Iranian IT specialists managed to disable the computer virus released to target its nuclear program. Finally on the day of the Egyptian revolution, per PressTV, one hundred thousand people were on the streets of Tehran celebrating the Islamic revolution, and supporting the Egyptians. Judging from the footage, there were definitely a lot of people there, demonstrating. A few days later, Western media were reporting massive anti-government demos in Tehran - although there were no reliable pictures since Iran had banned foreign press from covering the demos. PressTV said it was a few hundred people and showed pictures of vandalism. Seems to me, the truth is probably somewhere in between.

Other interesting points:
They are not in any way trying to preach Islam to their viewers.
If anything, they are quite strongly Left/socialist biased. Their reports from Europe are about workers, immigrants, environment issues, the anti-war movement etc. Same with their coverage from the US. They cover people, causes and movements that no other channels report on - important news. As a European, I can confirm that there is no hype or excessive agenda in what they are showing/saying about European current affairs.
They also cover really interesting human interest stories from East Asia, Africa, South America. Not sure where they are getting their material or ideas from, but these stories in particular constitute very good journalism.

In terms of serious bias; they really don't like US foreign policy, or anything at all about Israel. This is extremely obvious. Can't help but wondering what they would like to happen with Israel and the Israelis.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Misha, how the things are going in Iran?

The "things" are somewhat quiet right now, but that will most probably change within a couple of hours. Tomorrow, February 20th (Esfand 1st in the Persian calendar) is the D-day. Probably it's going to be the same story we've seen in many other occasions in the last two years: the streets will be packed with the anti-riot police, and with members of the "Basij" militia. These Basij guys used to be more or less recognizable: all of them were bearded and dressed like villagers. But now, they've learned how to shave. That makes the "things" a bit tougher: you can't say at a glance whether the guy in front of you is an ordinary citizen or...

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Hey, Misha, welcome back! Do you feel like the government loses support?

I don't know what exactly you mean by "losing support". If you're talking about what Galileo called "the ignorant and superstitious masses", well, there's no cure for their ignorance. So they will go on supporting a regime that's murdering it's own people in the name of Islam.

The Iranian "Green Movement" receives much less international attention than it should, for the obvious reason that the Western media is not allowed to cover the events here. [Compare with the events on the Tahrir Square in Cairo, which were on TV 24/7 for about two weeks.]

This is what the "support" stems from: a semi-traditional society whose first priority is to stay alive and doesn't care much about how to live, with religious beliefs that are easy to take advantage of, and suffering from the common disease of all traditional societies, i.e. fear of change. These things can't be changed in one day, and that's why I think a second revolution is not the way to go.

@ Hanna: You're right. Press TV has no serious rival among English-language channels. In my opinion, the most reliable news channel that covers Iran is BBC Persian, but of course that's not in English. I also have to admit that I don't watch Press TV on a regular basis, so maybe I shouldn't have condemned it like that. But, I've noticed a very tangible pro-Government bias in their views.

The situation in Iran is very tense, the two sides have their campaigns, and everyone ultimately listens to channels that say what he wants to hear. Press TV certainly doesn't say what I want to hear.
=========================

Finally, I have to say this: the recent events in Egypt and Tunisia (and the consequences that followed right across the Arab world) have radically changed my opinion of Arabs. I used to think they're totally unable (and unwilling) to stand for a common goal. I was dead wrong. Although I'm a bit skeptical about the future, the main point is that Arabs have finally awakened. [But then again, Egyptians are about as much Arab as, say, Colombians are Spanish...]

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

I used to think they're totally unable (and unwilling) to stand for a common goal. I was dead wrong.

I don't see any common (pan-Arab) goal going on here, each country's doing their own thing.