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Thread: Questions about Ukrainian Politics and the Orange Revolution

  1. #1
    Hanna
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    Questions about Ukrainian Politics and the Orange Revolution

    Here are my questions, hope somebody can answer them!
    Maybe somebody else has more relevant questions?

    0) Why isn't Ukraine in the trade union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan?
    1) Are Ukrainian people even more cynical about Politics than Russians?
    2) What are the three main parties in Ukrainian politics and what do they stand for?
    3) What triggered the Orange Revolution?
    4) What precisely happened in the Orange Revolution?
    5) What good/bad things came out of the Orange Revolution and is it still relevant today?
    6) Where lies the future of Ukraine, with Russia/CIS, with the EU, with both or neither?
    7) What are most important problems that the Ukrainian government must solve, according to regular Ukrainians?
    8 ) Is there a bit split in the opinions of people in rural vs urban areas.. and what about Russian speaking vs Ukrainian speaking areas?
    9) Is language preference a serious problem in Ukraine or rather insignificant?

  2. #2
    Властелин
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    0) Why would any country join it in the first place? What was it created for in the first place?
    5) Guess, Ukraine has gotten closer to the European standards of living.
    6) EU or neither (what were the goals of creating CIS, I still don't get it, commie area #2 =)) )
    8,9) It's the West vs East issue (west part vs east part of the country) =)

    PS. Apparently, you're programming in C/C++/C#/Java or so =))

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    0) Why would any country join it in the first place? What was it created for in the first place?
    5) Guess, Ukraine has gotten closer to the European standards of living.
    6) EU or neither (what were the goals of creating CIS, I still don't get it, commie area #2 =)) )
    8,9) It's the West vs East issue (west part vs east part of the country) =)

    PS. Apparently, you're programming in C/C++/C#/Java or so =))
    I believe it has nothing to do with the West vs East or with other parts of the continent, it's just the slave Slavic aspiration to the master who will rule and feed you and you don't have to make any efforts. Just see how the Scandinavians treat each other. They don't seek any "standards of living" they make it themselves. And there is nothing to be given to any of them to betray a sibling.

  4. #4
    Старший оракул
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    1) Are Ukrainian people even more cynical about Politics than Russians?
    I believe so.

  5. #5
    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    OK, I promised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    0) Why isn't Ukraine in the trade union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan?
    I don't know really. One should be skilled in economics to say what exactly are pluses and minuses of that union. I guess that our previous president was romantic and was expecting to make a kind of trade relation with EU instead on the base of ideology: "orange revolution", "pro-Western government" etc..

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    1) Are Ukrainian people even more cynical about Politics than Russians?
    In some sense yes. Russians often have sentiments about "Great Eurasian Nation," "Political and cultural superpower" and so on. Ukrainians usually have not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    2) What are the three main parties in Ukrainian politics and what do they stand for?
    This is the problem. Our main parties usually has no responsible political ideology, they just fight for power with each other. Of course there are populist slogans and promises before the elections but after the elections they are easily "forgotten". Organization of parties in fact are based on personal (corrupted) relations rather than on ideology. Still I'll try to describe some trends.

    Our main parties are: 1) "Party of Regions" (PR), which keeps the power now. It is traditionally supported by big industrial business of the urbanized Russian-spoken Eastern Ukraine. 2) "Fatherland", which has good results in Central Ukraine, consists of "petty bourgeoisie" in Marxist terms and strongly based on the personality of the leader Yulia Timoshenko. (Not so long ago the party was called "Yulia Timoshenko's Block") 3) I don't know which is the third now. Some time ago it was "Our Ukraine" leaded by previous president Viktor Yushchenko. It was based on ethnic-cultural nationalism and had majority in Western regions. But now they lost many votes as their president was extremely unsuccessful.

    3) What triggered the Orange Revolution?
    Well, a group of people (behind the contemporary "Party of regions") tried to get the power without enough support of other players and mass media (especially in Kiev).

    4) What precisely happened in the Orange Revolution?
    Err... Too much. There were president elections where Yanukovich (from PR) won with minor advantage. Then there were mass demonstrations in Kiev against him claiming that elections were falsified. The power collapsed and there were re-elections where his opponent Yushchenko was elected with minor advantage.

    5) What good/bad things came out of the Orange Revolution and is it still relevant today?
    The bad: we got a president and government, which were in permanent quarrel and were unable to work effectively and finally crashed the economy. The legal procedures were violated and now no political power respects the procedure: nothing is stable, everything can be revised at any time. Chaos, instability. (I don't know, who is more guilty: falsifiers or revolutionizers.)
    The good: we got more pluralistic politics, media and society.

    6) Where lies the future of Ukraine, with Russia/CIS, with the EU, with both or neither?
    Pray and you will be answered. We are not masters of our fate.

    7) What are most important problems that the Ukrainian government must solve, according to regular Ukrainians?
    Provide stability. Rise the level of life. Stop the corruption.

    8 ) Is there a bit split in the opinions of people in rural vs urban areas.. and what about Russian speaking vs Ukrainian speaking areas?
    OMG. Yes, there is a difference between Russian-spoken East and South vs Ukrainian-spoken West. In attitude, traditions etc. But the border is smooth.

    9) Is language preference a serious problem in Ukraine or rather insignificant?
    Well, I live in the East and we have no this problem locally. There are very few people who speak Ukrainian in common life. (Though there are some people who say that we should. My wife says that we are Ukrainians and we should not forget our beautiful language. OK, I say, let us speak Ukrainian each second day. Oh, no, it is too complicated, I am tired, I have more important problems right now. Maybe some day.) In the Center and in the West situation is more complicated... But I guess in common life it should not be a problem now anywhere. You will be understood in both languages as well as in great number of local variations and language mixtures.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  6. #6
    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    0) Why isn't Ukraine in the trade union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan?
    The problem is that Ukraine is a member of WTO now. That russophobe Yushchenko was so willing to make Ukrain more distant from Russia that he agreed to all demands of WTO without arguing and Ukraine become a member on a very disadvantageous terms. And some WTO rules contradict with Customs Union rules.

    1) Are Ukrainian people even more cynical about Politics than Russians?
    I think almost the same. And according to my expirience it-ogo pulled the statement about "Russians often have sentiments about "Great Eurasian Nation" right out from his a$s (sorry, it-ogo).

    2) What are the three main parties in Ukrainian politics and what do they stand for?
    a) Regions party lead by current president Viktor Yanukovich. Mainly party of Russian-speaking industrial East and South. Partially supported in central regions and have almost zero support at nazi west (especially Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk regions)

    b) Timoshenko's party. They are mainly pro-nationalistic populists, like Jirinovsky's LDPR in Russia.

    c)Communists, Litvins's party (socialists) and former president Yushchenko's party (ultra-nationalists).

    3) What triggered the Orange Revolution?
    Geoge Soros and CIA mainly (Yushchenko's wife is US citizen and (officialy [ha-ha] former) CIA officer), who driven young brainless nationalists out to the streets provocating them saying that Yanukovich cheated at the elections.

    4) What precisely happened in the Orange Revolution?
    After those protest there was third! tour of the elections and the results were as CIA wanted this time.

    5) What good/bad things came out of the Orange Revolution and is it still relevant today?
    The results were that Russophibic pro-nazis came to power. Try to guess the rest.

    6) Where lies the future of Ukraine, with Russia/CIS, with the EU, with both or neither?
    CIS is a fiction. It doesn't work actually. And I think more likely the answer is with both.

    7) What are most important problems that the Ukrainian government must solve, according to regular Ukrainians?
    I agree with it-ogo here.

    8 ) Is there a bit split in the opinions of people in rural vs urban areas.. and what about Russian speaking vs Ukrainian speaking areas?
    Rural areas are mostly Ukrainian or half-Ukrainian dialect (surjik) speaking, even at the East. The east cities are almost Russian-speaking only. And the capital (Kiev) about 40% Russian speaking and 60% Ukrainian (according to my expirience). At Soviet times Kiev was almost completely Russian speaking city though.

    9) Is language preference a serious problem in Ukraine or rather insignificant?
    Some people think that's very serious, others think the opposite.
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  7. #7
    Hanna
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    Thanks for the interesting responses. I think it would be great for Ukraine if it could become a sort of Europe-to-Russia gateway country in terms of trade, travel and culture.

    I plan to travel through Ukraine, north to South in the spring (April or May). Maybe Gromozeka or it-ogo will have time to meet up for a cup of coffee. I think the first town I'll visit might be Odessa (arriving by train or coach... still working this out....)

    Odessa has a sort of "glamorous" association in my mind, but I don't know where I am getting that from... Is it famous for anything particularly glamorous now, during the Soviet period or even before the revolution?

    Who has been there? Is it nice? What are some nice and interesting things to do there? Is it mainly Russian speaking or not?

  8. #8
    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Odessa is a Russian-speaking city and definitely worth visiting, but "glamorous"? I wouldn't say so.
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  9. #9
    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    I plan to travel through Ukraine, north to South in the spring (April or May). Maybe Gromozeka or it-ogo will have time to meet up for a cup of coffee. I think the first town I'll visit might be Odessa (arriving by train or coach... still working this out....)

    Odessa has a sort of "glamorous" association in my mind, but I don't know where I am getting that from... Is it famous for anything particularly glamorous now, during the Soviet period or even before the revolution?

    Who has been there? Is it nice? What are some nice and interesting things to do there? Is it mainly Russian speaking or not?
    I don't think I'll be on your way.

    Odessa has a very specific reputation. It was a "capital of humor" in the USSR, odessites are believed to have a very special paradoxal state of mind. They have a reputation of being cunning and successfull in trickery. There are plenty of odessian anecdotes often with Yiddish accent. Odessa is the most cosmoploitic and multinational city with its own cultural ambitions. It is hardly glamurous though. There are traditions of criminal romantics remained from the old times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil77 View Post
    I think almost the same. And according to my expirience it-ogo pulled the statement about "Russians often have sentiments about "Great Eurasian Nation" right out from his a$s (sorry, it-ogo).
    Зато не в бровь. Как сказал бы Рамиль "Баттхерт детектед".
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  10. #10
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by it-ogo View Post
    Как сказал бы Рамиль [...]
    Да, безусловно Рамиль - кладезь мудрости и выпуклых образов. Я тоже частенько его цитирую.

    Вообще-то: "баттхёрт детектед" - это старый добрый способ вести специальную олимпиаду. Раньше он назывался "у тебя, что, комплекс на эту тему?" А нОнешная мОлодежь переложила, вот, на иноземный лад. Типа, так оно понятнее будет.

    А т.н. "имперские амбиции" (ТМ) ... у кого их нет? Крым-то ведь тоже не исконно-посконно украинская территория. Отчего же бедных крымчан неволить рiдной мовой? На чужой горбок не насмеюся, на свой горбок не нагляжуся. Но, это так, к слову. Ведь и на Дальнем востоке, и на Урале славяне появились относительно недавно. Вот когда устроит какой-нибудь Фронт Освобождения Бурятии пару-тройку терактов, придётся об этом вспомнить. Нда.

  11. #11
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    Да, безусловно Рамиль - кладезь мудрости и выпуклых образов. Я тоже частенько его цитирую.
    Ну вы уж вообще... того. К тому же, я по-моему, ни разу не употреблял слова баттхёрт, к тому же в сочетании с б-гомерским словом "детектед".
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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  13. #13
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Send me a PM if you need me.

  14. #14
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil View Post
    Не в русской же транслитерации )))
    Миссис Хадсон, вы ещё и придирчивы. Чем Вам наша православная кириллица не угодила для спеллинга?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    спеллинга?
    FFFFUUUU....
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