Thread: New article in The Exile - Americans, check this out

On the Russian end of that expression though, why политиков in genitive?

Not in genetive, but in accusative.

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Originally Posted by basurero

Ну политиков к чёрту!

(Sorry, just trying out my new frase)

phrase -- it's one of those tricky english things -- ph sounds like f... And not, I'm not ripping him -- it's in his siggy.

On the Russian end of that expression though, why политиков in genitive?

Lol, it's bloody Spanish's phault!

Originally Posted by mishau_

On the Russian end of that expression though, why политиков in genitive?

Not in genetive, but in accusative.

OK, but I still don't quite understand -- presumably, this is just a shortened form of политиков иди к черту, right? So then wouldn't it be nominal (or even really archaically speaking in Slavic languages, vocative)?

Originally Posted by mishau_

On the Russian end of that expression though, why политиков in genitive?

Not in genetive, but in accusative.

OK, but I still don't quite understand -- presumably, this is just a shortened form of политиков иди к черту, right? So then wouldn't it be nominal (or even really archaically speaking in Slavic languages, vocative)?

I won't knock the Spanish though -- I (supposedly) studied it for 3 years in high school and 2 semesters in college, and I really can't speak it -- I can understand more than I thought I did. All I remember from HS is we went and saw "Evita." lol

Originally Posted by tdk2fe

Ok, I have an honest question here. Why is it that the general consensus abroad is an extreme hate for America?

That is the most uninformative statement I have heard this year. What are you basing your conclusions on? General consensus is extreme hate? I suspect that you base it on the fact that the only thing you hear is from the people who hate America, because people who love America wouldn't make news.

Originally Posted by tdk2fe

If we aren't the world, then why so much interest in us? He obviously knows enough about the Katrina incident to call it a huge blunder. He knows enough about our involvment with Iraq to say that we're losing. If we aren't the world, and we are a bunch of fat idiots, then why do you care?

Because the world (which isn't us) does not think happy thoughts when super powers (be it USA or Russia or China) invade random countries. That is why they care. They are human beings.

Originally Posted by tdk2fe

Maybe it's because we're in some way trying to shove our democratic principles down your throat? Is that the reason? Yeah, maybe we do stand on a soapbox sometimes and say that our way is the best, because it seems to work for us. No offense, but the Russian political system has collapsed twice in the last 100 years. You never hear any nation referred to as a "Former state of America". Yet we're the imperialists, and we're trying to take over the world.

Who is "you" in "your throats"? The world? Are the America critics only undemocratic popsicles?

Originally Posted by tdk2fe

It just seems that the hipocracy here is obscene. In Russia (and other countries, I gather) there is this fervent hate for America. It doesn't matter that, perhaps in other countries' pasts there have been tremendous acts of genocide, mass murder, etc... But as soon as America gets entangled abroad in a war which we all would agree is a mistake, everybody craps their pants and starts screaming that we're about to take over the world or something.

fervent hate? Where? Did you see that while you were in Russia? I didn't see anything, oh wait, well there was this one couple who was really angry. But that was two people for a whole year worth of stay in Russia.

I do agree that other countries headlights are more glaring than one's own, just like we get all upset at the middle east if the gas prices go up, when we drive cars with 0.01 miles per gallon.

Originally Posted by tdk2fe

The truth of the matter is that most american's don't care about other countries. They don't hate them and they don't love them. They probably couldn't even point to Russia on a map, and probably think that Siberia is another country. They get scared when they hear that some guy is responsible for attacking us and now he's building a nuclear arsenal. They feel better about themselves when they hear that there was no big bad bomb, but that it was all about spreading liberty. Yeah, we're ignorant. But nobody here really wants to force anybody else to be like us, people simply don't care.

We don't want to force anybody else to be like us, but tell that to Iraq. How convincing can we be, when we are occupying two islamic countries?

I want to mention one thing or, more precisely, one proven fact for us here in Russia: people of the country and government of the country are two different things. One can't judge another country's people basing on what this country's government do or say. Here in Russia people were untied from their rulers and this state has lasted for centuries. I think that, despite of democracy, this holds true for USA too.

New evidence demonstrated in 2005 that torture and mistreatment have been a deliberate part of the Bush administration's counterterrorism strategy, undermining the global defense of human rights,
Human Rights Watch said today in releasing its World Report 2006.

The evidence showed that abusive interrogation cannot be reduced to the misdeeds of a few low-ranking soldiers, but was a conscious policy choice by senior U.S. government officials.

The policy has hampered Washington's ability to cajole or pressure other states into respecting international law, said the 532-page volume's introductory essay.

Blah-blah-blah...

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdes ... ca242a.htm

Well, I would agree that anti-American sentiment makes news, while pro-American stuff abroad most of the time does not. However, from what people have said on this forum:

DDT:
Well I think that most forumers here and about 50% of Americans would agree with you anyway, Pranki!

mishau_:
Apart from the last two paragraphs I quite agree that the artile reflects the Russian common view on that issue.

BabaYaga:
I would even venture to say that - maybe apart from the UK - it reflects the European common view on that issue.

And also my experience in Russia, it seems that people really don't like america. While Kalinka said that he only saw one couple that didn't like America in a year, I saw a lot of anti-American sentiment in towns like Saratov and Astraxan. I was also in St. Petersburg and Moscow, and I would agree that people in those cities seem to have a more accepting opinion of Americans and foreigners in general - probably the same as the contrast betwen, say, NY, NY and Witchita, Kansas.

As for forcing other people to be like us, I apologize for the extemporaneous wording of my post. As Bisquit pointed out, there exists a gap between the policies of a nation's government and the general views of the people of that nation. I was speaking on behalf of most Americans, not the policies of the Administration (Which I would say has set a frightening precedent of preemptive strike as a matter of policy).

With regard to Mishau_'s comments, I think I would like to scrutinize the Human Rights' Watch's definition of "Torture and mistreatment". I certainly agree that it is wrong to physically abuse prisoners. But, on the other hand, using verbal threats or other psychological means to get info is a practice that is blurred as a matter of ethics.

So, am I completely off base here on my observation that the world hates america? How do you guys feel?

tdk

Originally Posted by tdk2fe

So, am I completely off base here on my observation that the world hates america? How do you guys feel?

You are not completely off base. There used to be times when Russians, especially younger generation of 70s preferred everything American or rather everything western. At that time we didn't differentiate much between Western Europe and America or Canada for that matter. It was all the same, another planet where everything had to be right since everything seemed wrong in our land. At that time we didn't believe all the propaganda we were getting about this other planet. Now, when a lot of people had an opportunity to travel/work abroad, when all kinds of information started flowing into the country people realized that in many cases they were mistaken glorifying the West, the grass is not always greener on the other side, etc... However, it is true that popularity of America dropped well below average for the West in general. Please don't take it personal, but the problem with the US, is that most of the people don't know much about the rest of the world and couldn't care less. There isn't a single TV channel where you could get a decent coverage of the world. In schools there is an accent on studying local history and local geography, etc. So, a lot of the people are ignorant, don't really appreciate other cultures (besides food). And on the top of that you have all these ridiculous preemptive strikes. I watched how American media prepared public to bombing Serbia. By the end of the campaign an average American believed that Serbian=terrorist and so Serbia had to be given a lesson. In Canada there is a comedy program by Rick Mercy called "Talking to Americans". He goes to the US and asks people on streets all sorts of stupid questions about Canada, which BTW as you might know is the biggest trade partner of the States. You would not believe what people say... Even some professors in Princeton made complete fools out of themselves. Both Gore and Bush demonstrated during their election campaign that they didn't know the name of the Canadian PM at the time! Should I tell you how many times I had to spell the Canada's capital name on the phone even after I would say I am calling from the capital of Canada? Try to find a Canadian who doesn't know which city is the capital of the US... Yes, on one hand people might be detached from their governments as we preferred to think in Soviet Union, but on the other hand we have a saying "Every nation deserves its leader". At least in Canada America was much better perceived when Clinton was in power. Again, please don't take this as a personal attack. I know there are plenty of well-educated and nice people in America. But we are speaking of a general impression the country makes.

Originally Posted by tdk2fe

So, am I completely off base here on my observation that the world hates america? How do you guys feel?

tdk

I feel all right. I am not particularly sure what or who your referring to when you say "the world", "america". I would not be particularly shocked if whoever hates "america" dwells on hating his next door neighbor, a dog and a mailman too. I met quite a number of wonderful people in the US when I lived there. I have never met the whole country though or the world for that matter, so I cant provide a knowledgable opinion on the whole population . I also dont read articles of the sort published at the beginning of the thread, they frustrate me: I feel compelled to help the author but I cant for I am not a psychiatrist.

Uncle Sam has reneged and defaulted on up to 40% of its trillion-dollar foreign debt, and nobody has said a word except for a line in The Economist. In plain English that means Uncle Sam runs a worldwide confidence racket with his self-made dollar based on the confidence that he has elicited and received from others around the world, and he is a also a deadbeat in that he does not honor and return the money he has received.

Blah-blah-blah...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 6Dj01.html

Originally Posted by Kirill Pankratov

And we're selling some anti-aircraft missiles to Iran to fry your asses in case you get stupid ideas.

That's a real scholarly point right there, yes, sir... it almost sounds like a joke, but I think he's trying to be serious.

Literacy of College Graduates Is on Decline

Survey's Finding of a Drop in Reading Proficiency Is Inexplicable, Experts Say


Literacy experts and educators say they are stunned by the results of a recent adult literacy assessment, which shows that the reading proficiency of college graduates has declined in the past decade, with no obvious explanation.

...

While more Americans are graduating from college, and more than ever are applying for admission, far fewer are leaving higher education with the skills needed to comprehend routine data, such as reading a table about the relationship between blood pressure and physical activity, according to the federal study conducted by the National Center for Education Statistics.

Experts could not definitively explain the drop.

Blah-blah-blah....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00701.html

Originally Posted by patriot

youre anti-aircraft wepons are outdated so we are planes will just run past it


face it youre millitary is outdated

and why USA

I'm trying to figure out if you're a foreign troll who's using sh*tty online translators or if you're actually an American troll who has the spelling and grammatical ability -- not to mention reasoning capacity -- of a mentally retarded 3 year old?

Originally Posted by Barmaley

I'm trying to figure out if you're ...

Когда решишь, сообщи мне хочешь ли, чтобы я почистила все его посты или, может, только последующие?

Originally Posted by Lampada

Originally Posted by Barmaley

I'm trying to figure out if you're ...

Когда решишь, сообщи мне хочешь ли, чтобы я почистила все его посты или, может, только последующие?

ЛОЛ. Он <тролл> в обоих делах -- о чем ты подождешь? Понимай, что я думаю, что свобода речи здорово, но этот человек не оставит посты, но чепуху, с которой он хочеть стать <Флейм-Вар>! Между ему и спаммерам, я бы выбирал спаммеры!

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Он <тролл> в любом случае -- чего ещё от него ждать?? Понимаешь, я думаю, что свобода речи здорово, но этот человек не посты оставляет, а чепуху, с которой он хочет стать <Флейм-Вар>! Если выбирать между ним и спаммером, я бы выбрал спаммера!

Ок ок, ты прав, только есть ошибки.

why us Americans i and my compatriots have not done harm to any Russian. We are peace loving people who are only driven by madmen bush as an example. We have fought hard for democracy. Thus we remain free.


And if it werent for us you might have been germans well by a small chance

heres proof we helped you guys out

In WW2 the US did help it's allies with the Lend Lease Act, which later turned into the Cash and Carry. The US secretly sent pilots and other operators to train the Brits/Russians on the equipment which was secretly supplied to them.

After the war, the US let the debts slide and our allies were not required to pay it back.

Before the US entered WW2, they were big time collaborators and saboteurs for those who fought the Axis powers.

Originally Posted by patriot

why us Americans i and my compatriots have not done harm to any Russian. We are peace loving people who are only driven by madmen bush as an example. We have fought hard for democracy. Thus we remain free.


And if it werent for us you might have been germans well by a small chance

heres proof we helped you guys out

In WW2 the US did help it's allies with the Lend Lease Act, which later turned into the Cash and Carry. The US secretly sent pilots and other operators to train the Brits/Russians on the equipment which was secretly supplied to them.

After the war, the US let the debts slide and our allies were not required to pay it back.

Before the US entered WW2, they were big time collaborators and saboteurs for those who fought the Axis powers.

You, personally, are doing great harm to the English language though.

Yes, America played a very important role in WWII, and it had the civil war and independance and such.

But countries in Europe, including Russia, had been fighting for their independance and democracey for hundreds of years before any white man ever set foot in what is now the US of A.

I am not saying America isn't democratic, or free or whatever. But get over it! It wasn't the first democracey and there are many countries that are more democratic, more peaceful, and more free than America with far lower crime rates. You're not THAT special. So shut up!

Originally Posted by TATY

You, personally, are doing great harm to the English language though.

"Patriot", please let us know:

A) Whether you are American or not
B) How old you are
C) To what political ideology you belong