Thread: New article in The Exile - Americans, check this out

http://www.exile.ru/2005-December-15/am ... is_up.html

Although the tone of this article is rather abusive, it's reflects what the vast majority of ordinary Russian people think of US policy. US officials, TV and papers won't tell this by no means, so check it out.

Why abusive? Absolutely normal tone. The only "abusive" thing in this article are last two paragraphs -- but they are written by Exile editors, not by Pankratov.
Except this, I agree completely. Good article. My respects to author.

It sounds just like any other Left Wing article written here in the USA.

Originally Posted by Scorpio

The only "abusive" thing in this article are last two paragraphs -- but they are written by Exile editors, not by Pankratov.

I believe you are mistaken -- they ARE the views of Pankratov; the confusion seems to arise in the "letter" within the article. He wrote the introductory paragraph, he wrote the main text of letter, and he wrote concluding trash. All of this is not the least bit surprising, though -- I avoid the "eXile" because of this kind of crap. What you have here is an original, even convincing, argument tainted by the "eXile"'s desire to be "alternative" -- which, in their opinion, essentially translates into being absurd, vulgar, and insulting, thus negating any sort of points the author may have scored...

For those foreigners, who likes hard tasks, the translation of this article:
http://www.inosmi.ru/stories/05/09/02/3453/224648.html
(I suppose, the translation's language isn't easy)

As for me, I can say that I and the most part of my associates are agree with the article. I don't say that America's time is up, but the most part of Russians really dislike America's attempts to teach us how to live.

Don't become angry with me, dear forumers

Well I think that most forumers here and about 50% of Americans would agree with you anyway, Pranki!

Apart from the last two paragraphs I quite agree that the artile reflects the Russian common view on that issue. When gen-sec Gorbachov first met with Ronald Reigan, he told Reigan like this: "forget teaching us, we are not students and you are not lecturers here". Mr. Reigan appreciated such words and his respect to Mr. Gorbachev grew. Not like the other following presidents, Reigan was a man of wisdom. It's not only my point of view, similar views are wide-spread in the USA itself. America has created a very great state in many ways during recent decades, but only for themselves. And now it's not very easy to get there to live. In no way it must mean that they can spread their views and living standards in all over the world. They are not the world as yet, I agree.

As a strong country America could invite everyone to live and work in order to show how nice it is to have a democratic order. Instead, America has gotten so frightened of damaging its order by foreigners, that its administration have toughened the entrance regime and ruined some democratic principals like personal immunity. Moreover, needless to say that Americans have elected a liar this time. They believed a liar and now they still trust him. It may have a bad end, I can tell you. Those who believe in lies are a perfect target for plotters and they will eventually become figures for manipulation. That's when the time will be up indeed.

The last two paragraphs in the article are not worth a party who can call himself doctor of philosophy. If he'd been able, he'd have taken off his boot and started hammering with it on the rostrum. That's so foolish to draw associatiations between the governing highest ranks and all pepople in the country. But it only underscores that we, Russians, so far must learn how not to be like bears with balalaikas while upholding our positions.

Originally Posted by mishau_

The last two paragraphs in the article are not worth a party who can call himself doctor of philosophy. If he'd been able, he'd have taken off his boot and started hammering with it on the rostrum. That's so foolish to draw associatiations between the governing highest ranks and all pepople in the country. But it only underscores that we, Russians, so far must learn how not to be like bears with balalaikas while upholding our positions.

Again, as for me, everything after "Kirill Pankratov, Ph.D., Acton, MA" seems to be written by "Exile" editors. IMHO, this comment just pretends to be sacrastic, in their own favorite style. Дешевая провокация и образчик примитивного стеба, характерный для этой бульварной газетенки.

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Again, as for me, everything after "Kirill Pankratov, Ph.D., Acton, MA" seems to be written by "Exile" editors.

У него есть дневник в ЖЖ
http://www.livejournal.com/users/neznaika_nalune/

слишком уж сложно для виртуала, как мне кажется. Хотя как знать, "порой не верится, друзья, но в жизни все бывает".

Кстати, авторство фразы про "плюрализм в одной голове" приписывают (вернее сказать, что он сам себе приписывает) Сергею Лопатникову.

Можете сами у него поинтересоваться, если ничего не путаю, то вот он
http://www.ccm.udel.edu/Personnel/homep ... nikov.html

Тока профессор этот на язык не только остр, но и весьма невоздеражан Ж) Про Жопу, Картельную Психиатрию и проч. от него услышать -- легхко.

Originally Posted by ded_pernat

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Again, as for me, everything after "Kirill Pankratov, Ph.D., Acton, MA" seems to be written by "Exile" editors.

У него есть дневник в ЖЖ
http://www.livejournal.com/users/neznaika_nalune/

слишком уж сложно для виртуала, как мне кажется. Хотя как знать, "порой не верится, друзья, но в жизни все бывает".

Я говорю только про те два последних абзаца. Естественно, то что выше, написано Панкратовым.

Originally Posted by ded_pernat

Кстати, авторство фразы про "плюрализм в одной голове" приписывают (вернее сказать, что он сам себе приписывает) Сергею Лопатникову.

Можете сами у него поинтересоваться, если ничего не путаю, то вот он
http://www.ccm.udel.edu/Personnel/homep ... nikov.html

Тока профессор этот на язык не только остр, но и весьма невоздеражан Ж) Про Жопу, Картельную Психиатрию и проч. от него услышать -- легхко.

Спасибо, буду знать!

Мне кажется все-таки это его слова, но как экслюзивный комментарий к своей собственной статье. Ему же ведь отказали ранее где-то в Штатах. Он как бы говорит "вот видите, вы забоялись меня печатать, ну и пошли в ж..., я здесь, все одно, напечатаю, где угодно напечатаю... ".

Ну, я вот так понял эти абзацы.

Блин, какая к черту разница, кем написаны два последних абзаца?

Originally Posted by mishau_

Apart from the last two paragraphs I quite agree that the artile reflects the Russian common view on that issue.

I would even venture to say that - maybe apart from the UK - it reflects the European common view on that issue.
And I'm not talking about politicians, there are too mant eejits amongst them.

It's very strange, isn't it, how at the moment (again, here at least), politicians (and often the media, who are usually firmly in the hands of the politicians) and people in the street have totally opposite opinions?

Or should I say - totally opposite interests?


It's true, the piece is harsh, and razor sharp - but I don't find it blatantly abusive either.
The truth always hurts.
Only:

The last two paragraphs in the article are not worth a party who can call himself doctor of philosophy.

True. And weird. Seems like it's written by two different people.

If he'd been able, he'd have taken off his boot and started hammering with it on the rostrum.

*LOL* Mishau
Memories, memories...... at least the politicians put up a good show back then!



BY

OK, Kirill Pankratov, Ph.D., of Acton, MA, if you're so dang smart, offer a solution. It's easy to America-Bash, but very few people offer constructive criticisim. Living in Acton, MA, it's a fairly logical conclusion that he's some ivory tower academic at some Boston university.
Reaping some pretty good gains from living in America too. Acton is some pricey real estate.

Those that complain about a problem, yet do nothing to solve it, are merely an extention of the problem.

Originally Posted by capecoddah

Those that complain about a problem, yet do nothing to solve it, are merely an extention of the problem.

... like those housing prices! %$*&%^$!!! Wish I could something to solve that

Originally Posted by BabaYaga

It's very strange, isn't it, how at the moment (again, here at least), politicians (and often the media, who are usually firmly in the hands of the politicians) and people in the street have totally opposite opinions?

But you forgot the people, who spent their time in front of the television - they have the same opinion as politicians...and there are to many of them..

Sadly, you are more than right, Eugene.
After all, someone put those politicians into power.....

Ну политиков к чёрту!

(Sorry, just trying out my new frase)

Ok, I have an honest question here. Why is it that the general consensus abroad is an extreme hate for America? The guy who wrote this piece obviously hates the country, and says things like

"First, let's drop all the pretense about the "world." What these authors really mean is a large part of the US and British political establishment, with occasional additions from other Western countries. Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, but you ain't no "world."

If we aren't the world, then why so much interest in us? He obviously knows enough about the Katrina incident to call it a huge blunder. He knows enough about our involvment with Iraq to say that we're losing. If we aren't the world, and we are a bunch of fat idiots, then why do you care?

Maybe it's because we're in some way trying to shove our democratic principles down your throat? Is that the reason? Yeah, maybe we do stand on a soapbox sometimes and say that our way is the best, because it seems to work for us. No offense, but the Russian political system has collapsed twice in the last 100 years. You never hear any nation referred to as a "Former state of America". Yet we're the imperialists, and we're trying to take over the world.

It just seems that the hipocracy here is obscene. In Russia (and other countries, I gather) there is this fervent hate for America. It doesn't matter that, perhaps in other countries' pasts there have been tremendous acts of genocide, mass murder, etc... But as soon as America gets entangled abroad in a war which we all would agree is a mistake, everybody craps their pants and starts screaming that we're about to take over the world or something.

The truth of the matter is that most american's don't care about other countries. They don't hate them and they don't love them. They probably couldn't even point to Russia on a map, and probably think that Siberia is another country. They get scared when they hear that some guy is responsible for attacking us and now he's building a nuclear arsenal. They feel better about themselves when they hear that there was no big bad bomb, but that it was all about spreading liberty. Yeah, we're ignorant. But nobody here really wants to force anybody else to be like us, people simply don't care.

Oh, and before you tag me as flamebait, I just wanted to say that i'm a left-leaning libertarian.

tdk. [/quote]

Originally Posted by basurero

Ну политиков к чёрту!

(Sorry, just trying out my new frase)

phrase -- it's one of those tricky english things -- ph sounds like f... And not, I'm not ripping him -- it's in his siggy.

On the Russian end of that expression though, why политиков in genitive?