Thread: Members of Ukrainian parliament fight over Russian language

Originally Posted by LXNDR

gRomoZeka please respond to this lowly request of mine

Originally Posted by LXNDR

now ARE YOU treated as a second grade citizen because you speak Russian? please describe the incidents illustrating that statement

I believe I'm treated as a second grade citizen every time I have no choice about what language to use, filling forms (almost all of them are Ukrainian only) or going to movies (no choice whatsoever, to watch a movie dubbed to Russian I have to go to Russia, it's nonsense, considering at least 15 millions of native Russian speakers in Ukraine). When Russian-speaking schools are turned into Ukrainian forcefully in purely Russian-speaking regions against wishes of teachers, parents and kids - usually without any way to oppose this decision since Russian officially has no more rights in situations like this than any other foreign language (and it concerns me personally because it affects my family, particularly two different schools attended by my niece and cousin).

When a person I talked to two days ago says something like: "I hope Russians will leave Crimea soon, and real Ukrainians will move in", implying that people who leave there are not "real" to this state or have no right to be there despite the fact that they have been living there for generations and real Ukrainians did not. It was just a personal point of view, but the real problem is that this ridiculous differentiation is widespread and is made purely on language basis, since "haters" have a wonderful and unbeatable argument: "We live in Ukraine, the official language of Ukraine is Ukrainian, ergo Russian-speaking citizens have no right to complain, they are essentially outlaws".

I'm for bilingualism with both languages equally respected and supported by the state, with people always having a choice between two languages anywhere, in any setting. Right now the state looks another way in regards to Russian (i.e. "allows" people to use it when it can't be avoided or forbidden or controlled anyway), and insists it does us a great favor by doing so. I don't need this kind of unreliable favors, I want this right being supported officially and irrefutably by law. Though I doubt it ever happens.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I believe I'm treated as a second grade citizen every time I have no choice about what language to use, filling forms (almost all of them are Ukrainian only) or going to movies (no choice whatsoever, to watch a movie dubbed to Russian I have to go to Russia, it's nonsense, considering at least 15 millions of native Russian speakers in Ukraine).

don't you know Ukrainian? if so why?

why do i not feel this way? my mother tongue is Russian

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

When Russian-speaking schools are turned into Ukrainian forcefully in purely Russian-speaking regions against wishes of teachers, parents and kids - usually without any way to oppose this decision since Russian officially has no more rights in situations like this than any other foreign language (and it concerns me personally because it affects my family, particularly two different schools attended by my niece and cousin).

did you read the Constitution? did you vote for it?

Originally Posted by LXNDR

don't you know Ukrainian? if so why?

I'm essentially fluent in Ukrainian, but it's not my native language and never will be. At the same time I'm a citizen of Ukraine for as long as it exists, and I feel that I should have a right to use the language that is "native" to me and to this part of the country freely and officially. Especially since it's just legislation of something that already exists, and will require minimum effort from the state.

Originally Posted by LXNDR

why do i not feel this way? my mother tongue is Russian

How could I know? Some people are ambivalent about this, and others are quite passionate (pro or contra). It depends on you personal views, your heritage, your family traditions and place of your residence.
You might feel ok with the current situation, but I'm bothered by it, and have been for a long time.

Originally Posted by LXNDR

did you read the Constitution? did you vote for it?

Nope. It was adopted and ratified by the Parliament in 1996 (with only 15 votes over minimum required). There was no referendum, afaik. How was I supposed to vote for it? =/

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I'm essentially fluent in Ukrainian, but it's not my native language and never will be. At the same time I'm a citizen of Ukraine for as long as it exists, and I feel that I should have a right to use the language that is "native" to me and to this part of the country freely and officially. Especially since it's just legislation of something that already exists, and will require minimum effort from the state.

excuse me, but if this is your reasoning i think your desire of having filling forms and subtitles in Russian is just a whim

i don't care whether they're in English, because i can understand it, let alone Ukrainian

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

How could I know? Some people are ambivalent about this, and others are quite passionate (pro or contra). It depends on you personal views, your heritage, your family traditions and place of your residence.
You might feel ok with the current situation, but I'm bothered by it, and have been for a long time.

believe me if i felt discriminated against i would be vocal about it, but i'm not vocal because there's nothing to be vocal about as far as language is concerned

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Nope. It was adopted and ratified by the Parliament in 1996 (with only 15 votes over minimum required). There was no referendum, afaik. How was I supposed to vote for it? =/

you're right i retract my question, and i'm really surprised it wasn't ratified on a referendum, i consider it amiss

Originally Posted by LXNDR

excuse me, but if this is your reasoning i think your desire of having filling forms and subtitles in Russian is just a whim

I think to turn a blind eye on what gRomoZeka is saying is not that wise. If tomorrow she or her children would vote for a separatist party or join some secessionist movements, don't start blaming Russia for its aggressive foreign politics. Blame the ignorance.

The "5th Channel" launched an advertising campaign against official recognition of Russian language in Ukraine:

Я хочу розмовляти українською мовою! - YouTube
Єдина державна мова - українська! - YouTube
Скажи "НІ" казнокрадам і українофобам! - YouTube
Я не хочу жити в резервації! - YouTube

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Though I doubt it ever happens.

Now you got me intrigued. Why not?

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Now you got me intrigued. Why not?

Maybe "ever" was too strong of a word, but I have my doubts. )
Ukrainian politics is extremely divided, corrupted and slow-working. Even reforms that are potentially supported by 90% of population could be awaited for decades. Referendum results are easily ignored (that's already happened in 2000).

So amendments on such a controversial issue as the second official language will require a lot of work and a certain stubbornness, and I don't see anyone in our government willing to put an effort. The Party of Regions (which is relatively pro-Russian) promised something like it, but their position is precarious, and I doubt they'll take the risk. And those who'll come after them might well be from another political "camp". And so it goes...
All in all, it is something our politicians would like to postpone for as long as possible, if it suits their interests.