Thread: Local people comment what happened in Mariupol at 9th May (video) + related

Originally Posted by Lampada

Ну и дела! Кто эти поребрики, и кто такая нона?

нона это самоходный миномет захваченный ополченцами в славянске. Прославился тем что его с десяток раз уничтожали украинские СМИ и министр аваков в фейсбуке и каждый раз врали.

Поребрики - так укры иногда называют ополченцев в Славянске. Когда там был захват здания МВД, один из ополченцев попросил мирных жителей отойти за поребрик чтобы не они не попали под обстрел. Слово "поребрик" у некоторых вызвало удивление и этим пытались доказать, что ополченцы на самом деле были россиянами, потому - что на Украине никто не использует слово "поребрик" (что не соответствует действительности).

Originally Posted by Eric C.

PS. Я уже об этом писал в нескольких местах, и могу повторить. Можете лепить эпитеты вроде "кровавый ублюдок" и им подобные, но перед этим все же вспомните, повернулся ли бы у вас в середине 1990-х язык сказать что-то типа "ополченцы в Гудермесе отбили у карателей артиллерийскую установку"?...

именно так и говорили либеральные российские сми в 90-х. И даже призывали российских солдат сдаваться в плен. Я не могу себе представить что было бы с украинскими сми, если бы они осмелились на такое на Украине.

Originally Posted by sergei

... на Украине никто не использует слово "поребрик" (что не соответствует действительности). ...

Мне помнится чаще говорили бровка, реже бордюр, а поребрик был строительным термином, конкретно небольшой бетонный блок.

"С моим Серегой мы шагаем по Петровке,
По самой бровке, по самой бровке."

ПОРЕБРИК И БОРДЮР - http://arhiteki.ru/kamen/vidy/item/6...-i-bordur.html

Интересный форум

Originally Posted by http://torum.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=0f2ccb9b40627d7eb500267155289a a1&topic=7708.msg65637#msg65637

Я просто понять пытаюсь -- вы все правда хотите в путинский концлагерь? Вы в курсе что у них на днях сказку Чиполлино запретили, за то что там в конце сюжета народ свергает диктатора? Что там за любую критику Великой Отечественной попадаешь под статью за экстремизм? Что за любой пикет несогласия тебе в автозаке почки отбивают? Что на днях к главным честным российским сайтам в инете россиянам закрыли доступ, т.е. россиянин идет на сайт и видит "Сайт закрыт по распоряжению Генпрокуратуры РФ". Это вам не Украина, там почти что 37й год уже настал, только пока что без расстрелов. Я там долго жила, так что это не пропаганда, это их, бедных, реалии.

Здорово их там Россией запугали.

Митинг в поддержку Новороссии ч.1

Александр Дугин с 24:00, после него - Владимир Жириновский

I am beginning to get really annoyed with Putin/Russian government about this.
It appears to be ever so slightly supporting the Donbass people's republics - and certainly the people in Russia seem to be. Yet, nothing concrete is done to help them, or stop the violence.

—Putin should either go out and say very clearly to the rebels (and the world) "We will never help you, we will never enter Ukrainian mainland with our army, forget it and learn to deal with Kiev regardless of what you think of them. Calm down and stop the occupations".

—Or else, he should enter the area, annex whatever parts of it makes sense to annex, and do it quickly so people can move on with their lives and things return to normal and they can begin to rebuild and repair. The way the West is relating to Russia right now, it can't get any worse anyway. Russia has nothing to lose reputation wise. As far as the West is concerned, the Cold War is back on regardless of what Russia does.

It's just horrible to leave this dragging on while people are dying, property and buildings destroyed and the reputation of the whole region dragged in the mud. Seems very cynical and pragmatic to me, that Russia was so swift and fast to act with Crimea, but now it's suddenly "no comment", "no action", "nothing to do with us". Nevertheless it's reported on non-stop in Russian media, clearly taking a stance for the rebels. So clearly it's a major issue.

Meanwhile a fair number of people in Eastern Ukraine seem convinced that Russia will somehow come to their rescue, despite no indications that will happen! I know Russia didn't start any of this (coup d'etat, occupations etc.) But I think it has the power to stop it in at least two different ways, and I don't quite see why Russia doesn't use that power.



SECONDLY: Don't know if this is true or not, but I saw it on RT. Apparently they couldn't get the normal Ukrainian army guys to participate in the offensive in Eastern Ukraine. So they had to draft Praviy Sektor types into the army to do the dirty work that nobody else wanted to do. Credit to those Ukrainians who refused to open fire on their own countrymen. Just goes to show that regular people are not behind any of it, just extremists and people pulling the strings from abroad.

Originally Posted by Hanna

—Putin should either go out and say very clearly to the rebels (and the world) "We will never help you, we will never enter Ukrainian mainland with our army, forget it and learn to deal with Kiev regardless of what you think of them. Calm down and stop the occupations".

—Or else, he should enter the area, annex whatever parts of it makes sense to annex, and do it quickly so people can move on with their lives and things return to normal and they can begin to rebuild and repair. The way the West is relating to Russia right now, it can't get any worse anyway. Russia has nothing to lose reputation wise. As far as the West is concerned, the Cold War is back on regardless of what Russia does.

Totally agree. Exactly my thoughts.

I am beginning to get really annoyed with Putin/Russian government about this.
It appears to be ever so slightly supporting the Donbass people's republics - and certainly the people in Russia seem to be. Yet, nothing concrete is done to help them, or stop the violence.

Open intervention will be fatal for Russia now.

- Программа-минимум - создание Западом славянского неонацистско-бандеровского рейха – постоянное давление на Россию, провоцирование ее различными способами, включая диверсии, а в случае адекватного ответа – тиражирование в мировых СМИ образа «свободной демократической Украины», которую якобы давит стремящаяся к восстановлению империи Россия; короче говоря, маленькая Украина – жертва большой России, по отработанной в Югославии схеме: «бедные албанцы – жертвы злых сербов».

Программа-максимум – та же, что в 1930-е годы при создании немецкого нацистского рейха: создание силы, которая в случае необходимости для Запада возьмет на себя решающую часть войны с Россией и максимально измотает ее, при этом самоуничтожившись. Иными словами, окончательное решение славянского/русского вопроса силами самих славян/русских с последующим разделом России/Северной Евразии и присвоением ее ресурсов и пространства. При этом надо помнить: нынешний отрыв Украины от России планируется как отрыв-противопоставление для давления на Россию или нанесения удара по ней силами неонацистско-бандеровского режима. (c)

The best way is to form a strong local army and arm it heavily, which is in process right now btw.

Don't know if this is true or not, but I saw it on RT. Apparently they couldn't get the normal Ukrainian army guys to participate in the offensive in Eastern Ukraine. So they had to draft Praviy Sektor types into the army to do the dirty work that nobody else wanted to do. Credit to those Ukrainians who refused to open fire on their own countrymen. Just goes to show that regular people are not behind any of it, just extremists and people pulling the strings from abroad.

that's true. The more information comes to light how ukraimian govmnt treats its own soldiers (both dead and alive) the more ppl try to escape from the army or refuse to go to the east.
this is one of the materials of !NOTE the Ukrainian press http://blogs.korrespondent.net/blog/politics/3377437/
after yatsenyuk lost crimea (which was the first aim for the US, and he understands that he's not gonna be forgiven for that) he is simply doing whatever washington says. And the US need Donbass region which is sold to shevron and shell.
Nobody wants to negotiate regardless what they say at numerous european summits. Look at this announcement of the ukrainian govmnt !NOTE again the Ukrainian press Жители Донбасса будут проходить фильтрацию - глава Минобороны - Korrespondent.net that means that ALL inhabitants of the south -east are to pass through filtration camps. This clear message means "you are all doomed if you give up".
That means that they will not actively sponsor state army but will support private military companies with private funds.
Therefore trash from all over the world come to make some money for killing people
like this one
По непроверенным данным, шведский убийца-любитель Микаел Скиллт засветился 13 июня в качестве снайпера в Мариуполе:

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

По непроверенным данным, шведский убийца-любитель Микаел Скиллт засветился 13 июня в качестве снайпера в Мариуполе:

I googled this guy. What a scumbag. Apparently he is a Nazi who went to Ukraine to fight. However, Ukrainian police beat him up, when he was on a bus to Kharkov, and he ended up in hospital, in Ukraine.
It proves the hypocrisy surrounding this: Normally Swedish media are totally obsessed with racism and nazis. Anyone who isn't happy with every aspect of immigration and "multiculturalism" is labelled a nazi and racist. But here, they are shutting their eyes. Plenty of extreme Nazis travelled to Ukraine to participate in a coup d'etat, even posting photos of themselves gearing up for fighting and vandalism. The only way to find out about it is to read obscure blogs.

And the US need Donbass region which is sold to Chevron and Shell.

Same as happened in Eastern Romania. They are poorer there than Ukraine, and now Chevron is fracking the whole area to pieces against the will of the locals. They are getting poisoned and sick but their protests are ignored, and a private security firm was brought in to break up the protests. Welcome to the EU, Ukraine.

That means that they will not actively sponsor state army but will support private military companies with private funds.

It's too disgusting for words.

And to think: None of this would have happened if the EU and USA hadn't gone in and supported Euromaidan and the coup d'etat. The whole situation is TOXIC. The EU is supposed to be for peace.

Исполняющий обязанности министра обороны Украины Михаил Коваль заявил, что к жителям Юго-Востока будут применены "специальные фильтрационные меры", в результате которых людей будут расселять в разные регионы. Такое заявление он сделал на заседании Кабинета министров Украины в среду, 11 июня.
Министр подчеркнул, что среди людей (в том числе среди женщин) будут выявлять тех, кто связан с сепаратистами и кто совершил преступления на территории Украины.

Gosh. Yes, now they can never give up can they? I thought something like that would happen.

That fellow Ponomarov (?) or whatever his name was, I read he was captured. When I saw these people on TV, I realised that the leaders had put their entire future on the line. They must be victorious now, or they'll go to prison, unless, possibly they could flee to Russia and be allowed to stay. That makes for a violent struggle. Fanatical Praviy Sektor against men who risk life in prison. It could get even worse than it already is.

I don't think it's realistic to expect these guys to defend themselves indefinitely though.
What Pridnestrovie did in Moldova, and South Ossetia in Georgia was against much smaller countries than Ukraine, and smaller areas.

I don't think they can succeed in a meaningful way without the support of Russia. If they are not going to get that, then their best option is probably to leave Ukraine for elsewhere in Europe, or for Russia.

I really had thought Yugoslavia was the last war in Europe, but here we go again.

Lokks like all the main goals of the US in Ukraine are very far fron achievement.
Crimea is lost.
Shale gas of kramatorsk and slovyans area is a big question.
Therefore the histerics started
look at this bill S.2277 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Russian Aggression Prevention Act of 2014 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress (it ahd aleady passed the congress and now is getting ready to pass the senate)

looks quite nice

just a couple of qoutes:

SEC. 206. SUPPORT FOR RUSSIAN DEMOCRACY AND CIVIL SOCIETY
ORGANIZATIONS.

(a) In General.--The Secretary of State shall increase efforts,
directly or through nongovernmental organizations, to--
(1) improve democratic governance, transparency,
accountability, rule of law, and anti-corruption efforts in the
Russian Federation;
(2) strengthen democratic institutions and political and
civil society organizations in the Russian Federation;
(3) expand uncensored Internet access in Russia; and
(4) expand free and unfettered access to independent media
of all kinds in Russia, including through increasing United
States Government-supported broadcasting activities, and to
assist with the protection of journalists and civil society
activists who have been targeted for free speech activities.
(b) Authorization of Appropriations.--There is authorized to be
appropriated to the Secretary of State $10,000,000 for each of fiscal
years 2015 through 2017 to carry out the activities set forth in
subsection (a).

SEC. 301. MILITARY ASSISTANCE FOR UKRAINE.

(a) In General.--Notwithstanding any other provision of law
limiting the assistance to be provided under this section, beginning on
the date following the date of completion of the assessment required by
subsection (b), the President is authorized to provide to the
Government of Ukraine upon that Government's request, as appropriate
and in a manner consistent with the capabilities and needs of the armed
forces of Ukraine identified in such assessment, the following defense
articles, services, and training:
(1) Anti-tank weapons and ammunition.
(2) Anti-aircraft weapons and ammunition.
(3) Crew weapons and ammunition.
(4) Small arms and ammunition, including pistols,
submachine guns, assault rifles, grenade launchers, machine
guns, and sniper rifles.
(5) Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles.
(6) High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles.
(7) Inflatable boats.
( Body armor.
(9) Fire control, range finder, optical and guidance and
control equipment.
(10) Explosive disposal and improvised explosive device
detection equipment.
(11) Mine detection equipment.
(12) Chemical, biological, radiation, and nuclear
detection, testing, and protection equipment.
(13) Communications, logistic, combat support, medical
equipment, rations, specialized equipment, and other defense
articles, services, and training requested by the Government of
Ukraine that the President determines to be appropriate......

(c) Authorization of Appropriations.--There is authorized to be
appropriated to the Secretary of State $100,000,000 for fiscal year
2014 to carry out the activities set forth in subsection (a).

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Lokks like all the main goals of the US in Ukraine are very far fron achievement.
Crimea is lost.
Shale gas of kramatorsk and slovyans area is a big question.
Therefore the histerics started
look at this bill S.2277 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Russian Aggression Prevention Act of 2014 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress (it ahd aleady passed the congress and now is getting ready to pass the senate)

looks quite nice

just a couple of qoutes:

SEC. 206. SUPPORT FOR RUSSIAN DEMOCRACY AND CIVIL SOCIETY
ORGANIZATIONS.

(a) In General.--The Secretary of State shall increase efforts,
directly or through nongovernmental organizations, to--
(1) improve democratic governance, transparency,
accountability, rule of law, and anti-corruption efforts in the
Russian Federation;
(2) strengthen democratic institutions and political and
civil society organizations in the Russian Federation;
(3) expand uncensored Internet access in Russia; and
(4) expand free and unfettered access to independent media
of all kinds in Russia, including through increasing United
States Government-supported broadcasting activities, and to
assist with the protection of journalists and civil society
activists who have been targeted for free speech activities.
(b) Authorization of Appropriations.--There is authorized to be
appropriated to the Secretary of State $10,000,000 for each of fiscal
years 2015 through 2017 to carry out the activities set forth in
subsection (a).

SEC. 301. MILITARY ASSISTANCE FOR UKRAINE.

(a) In General.--Notwithstanding any other provision of law
limiting the assistance to be provided under this section, beginning on
the date following the date of completion of the assessment required by
subsection (b), the President is authorized to provide to the
Government of Ukraine upon that Government's request, as appropriate
and in a manner consistent with the capabilities and needs of the armed
forces of Ukraine identified in such assessment, the following defense
articles, services, and training:
(1) Anti-tank weapons and ammunition.
(2) Anti-aircraft weapons and ammunition.
(3) Crew weapons and ammunition.
(4) Small arms and ammunition, including pistols,
submachine guns, assault rifles, grenade launchers, machine
guns, and sniper rifles.
(5) Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles.
(6) High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles.
(7) Inflatable boats.
( Body armor.
(9) Fire control, range finder, optical and guidance and
control equipment.
(10) Explosive disposal and improvised explosive device
detection equipment.
(11) Mine detection equipment.
(12) Chemical, biological, radiation, and nuclear
detection, testing, and protection equipment.
(13) Communications, logistic, combat support, medical
equipment, rations, specialized equipment, and other defense
articles, services, and training requested by the Government of
Ukraine that the President determines to be appropriate......

(c) Authorization of Appropriations.--There is authorized to be
appropriated to the Secretary of State $100,000,000 for fiscal year
2014 to carry out the activities set forth in subsection (a).

Oh what irony. These people have no perspective.
Fabulous that the country that spies on the entire world's internet usage is concerned about online freedom, in Russia. I have no idea whether there is any issue with that in Russia, but I highly doubt it.

And Russians will be so lucky as to receive American propaganda, it seems. Voice of America; this unbiased and neutral source of information, lol. Well, this time around people will probably see it for what it is, rather than fascinating forbidden fruit.
Social media will proably also play a large part. The US has a whole psy-ops strategy, just for manipulating young people with social media.

Accusatory stories in media today about how the rebels got their hands on three Russian tanks (although there is no proof for it).
Sneaky if Russia did give them 3 tanks. But meanwhile it's allright apparently for the UA army to be armed to the teeth with the latest American weaponry. Made by a US manufacturer, no doubt.

And finally, they are predicting that this goes on until 2017!
I am seriously beginning to believe that Russia going in and annexing these areas is the least painful solution for the people there. I know it-ogo is against it, but surely it's better than being under attack by your own government, or living indefinitely in a civil war zone.

If Russia has some kind of "secret" plan to let things fall to pieces and total chaos descend before it does anything, then that's cruel too. I really think Russia could have either strongly discouraged the rebels, or done the same thing as on Crimea, with Lugansk and wherever else it could have been successful.

To think that all this came about, as the EU and USA decided to support the ousting of a democratically elected president, is just mindboggling. How any thinking European or American can agree to this havng been done in our name is beggars belief. As for regular Ukrainians, I think most of them are just as shocked and horrified. They couldn't possibly be supporting this.

I read about the tragic downing of a UA army plane with over 40 troops this morning. Praviy sektor, conscripts or what?

Originally Posted by Hanna

I read about the tragic downing of a UA army plane with over 40 troops this morning. Praviy sektor, conscripts or what?

по неподтверждённой пока информации -
группа снайперская, штурмовая группа львовян и "добровольцев" литовцев, миномётная батарея, еда, медицина, и 1 БМД

UPD. Украинские СМИ говорят другое http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/pol...odyn-lvovianyn но это скорее всего враньё, потому что люди, которые непосредственно наблюдали за погрузкой говорят то что написано выше.

UPD2. Похоже правы и те и другие (вернее частично правы). Украинские сми говорят о 40 пассажирах, а по факту грузилось 56 (эти 16 видимо были Литовцы, про них молчат), и с регионами ,откуда солдаты, тоже видимо немного "ошиблись."

No wonder they were so brief about it then. And what on Earth does this have to do with Lithuania...

It's pathetic the English speaking press makes out that this is something Ukrainians feel strongly about and want to protect their country against Russian aggression. When in reality regular soldiers for the most part want nothing to do with it, and they have to turn to foreigners, extremists and private armies.

Meanwhile, it seems that women are beginning to take their children and leave, because it's too dangerous in part of Eastern Ukraine.

It's all heartbreaking. As if these people haven't been through enough. Now they'll be worse off than after the breakup of the USSR.

Both Russia and the EU / US have the power to stop it.

The EU / US could tell their man in Kiev to leave Eastern Ukraine for the time being, and let them set up as an autonomous region.

Russia could make it clear to the rebels that they'll get no support whatsoever, alternatively just annex the Donbass like it did Crimea.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Both Russia and the EU / US have the power to stop it.

The EU / US could tell their man in Kiev to leave Eastern Ukraine for the time being, and let them set up as an autonomous region.

Russia could make it clear to the rebels that they'll get no support whatsoever, alternatively just annex the Donbass like it did Crimea.

Unfortunately it's the gas what bothers those in power not the people.
But the good thing is that russian people seem to go there mostly not for money. And I know some people here who offer a room for refugees for free (they even give them some money for food).

When in reality regular soldiers for the most part want nothing to do with it

What about regular soldiers besides the link i provided above, there a lot of blood chilling stories even in Ukrainian press. Even brainwashed ukrainins understand now that they are just a cannon fodder for Kiev

And I wander who was that idiot to send a big cargo plane without any tactical assistance to an airport surrounded by enemy?

In Kiev crowd is throwing painted eggs to russian embassy. Flipping and smashing ambassy cars and putting tyres at the fence.


it's funny how the operator says that europe should appreciate what they are doing

here's the stream http://anti-maidan.com/?p=streams&si...kyiv&attempt=1
this one is better quality http://anti-maidan.com/?p=streams&si...90%D0%9D%D0%9F

I think the best part will be later on tonight. I think they will burn the building down
The crowd is being warmed up really professionally

I had no idea they had gas there. I remember learning very briefly about this region in school and all I recall is heavy industry, and mining.
I regret now, that I didn't go there, when I visited Ukraine, however it was quite far off my route, and I thought Odessa and Kiev seemed more interesting.
So it seems this area is really quite a prize then!

Originally Posted by Hanna

I had no idea they had gas there.

https://maps.google.com.ua/maps/ms?m...a4f&dg=feature

Exactly where they hav most severe fights. What a coincidence!

Interesting! But if they have so much gas, why are they importing gas from Russia?

They didn't just start importing it while having their own. There is huge complex gas transportation system biult in 70s - 80s to supply both europe and ukraine. (btw ukrainian part of that system has been given to chevron virtually for free). Gas in Norther Russia and in Siberia doesnt take fraking to extract. While in Ukraine it's shale gas. And i hope you know what fracking dioes to soil and all local ecology but tha's another issue.

Looking at UA army tactics it seems that chevron enforces Kiev not only to win in Donbass but also to depopulate the area as much as possible (where they seem to treat their own soldiers not much better then the enemy and local civilians)

Ok I get it. Yes, I know roughly how fracking works. I live in the UK at the moment, and they've started doing it here tool . People are very upset.

If they gave away a major natural resource to a foreign company for free, they are practically traitors to their own country. Every aspect of this stinks.

And the Kiev Ukrainians seem too high on EUphoria (they are in for a huge letdown; the EU is not a charity organisation....) and US kool aid to notice that they are getting robbed even more than normal.

Unbelievable that they cannot see that they are being used as pawns on a chessboard, and manipulated.

It's an epic tragedy however you look at it.