По моего - нет, не очень. А я думаю, может быть продажи его шоколадом уменьшит в России...Quote:
Originally Posted by bytemare
По моего - нет, не очень. А я думаю, может быть продажи его шоколадом уменьшит в России...Quote:
Originally Posted by bytemare
Лежат в магазинах как и раньше. Кто раньше покупал тот вроде и сейчас покупает.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Я покупала здесь в польском магазине. Не понимала названия, пока Порошенка не выбрали "шоколадным" президентом.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
По-моему,
, может быть, (с обеих сторон берётся в запятые)
продажа его шоколада
уменьшится
Thanks for the correction :) Aha! Now I get it, with his name....
Well, I am a bit of a chocoholic, so I always notice what the local chocolate brand is if I travel somewhere. It looks very nice, but I didn't like the taste.. I have seen it here in the UK, in a Polish store, lol. I guess Poles like it then.
http://roshen.cn/img/st_img/products/41.jpg
Прошу прощения.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
По глупому недомыслию я запостил то что возмутительно для любого нормального человека.
Прощу прощения у уважаемых участников дискуссии, кого мог оскорбить этот
безобразный образец троллинга.Quote:
(Deleted. L.)
Демонстрировать эти грязные призывы почтенной публике было отвратительно с моей стороны.
Прошу великодушно меня простить.
и впредь ещё более активно указывать на мои промахи и недостатки.
Alex_krsk, people get banned for such posts here, especially with pro-Russian point of view, I would suggest to calm down a bit.
Because Western leaders require public approval when they stage violent coups against legitimate governments. Without public approval, they are committing political suicide.Quote:
Originally Posted by bytemare
Let's level-up to reality: Public approval = most people in a Western nation support their leaders' plans. To get that much approval, they have to control the media.
I have lots of time to learn Russian and explore the reality of what's really happening. But most Americans don't. I've read that the majority of Americans have to deal with multiple jobs, their families, taxes, daily chores, etc etc. And they want some free-time to chill or have fun. That leaves very little time for reading or watching the media. But hey, if you've read one American media source then you already know what every other American media source is saying.
That's a dangerous statement. It could also be read, "So what if there's a bias in some places against Ukraine?". That bias supports political decisions that have invaded and destroyed other nations.Quote:
Originally Posted by bytemare
And btw, any recent Russian bias towards parts of Europe and the USA is understandable, considering the massive Western bias towards Russia. I'm only surprised that the Russian bias didn't start a lot sooner than it did.
Trust me, the majority of people in the US aren't extremely intelligent, aren't willing to take time out to explore foreign affairs, and are the same majority that supported illegal and questionable wars.
That's why Hanna's generalizations are very important. The West couldn't make the decisions and policies it makes without them.
Never underestimate the power of people or the power of governments to control their opinions. Suggested reading, Sun Tzu, The Art of War:
Sonshi.com | Original Sun Tzu's Art of War translation (not Giles) It's a lot about the power of disinformation.
Thanks. :) Btw, I'm getting very proficient at typing Russian too on my English keyboard. And you're definitely correct. Most Americans believe anything the American media tells them and they don't really care. But the American media is only there to support politicians and oligarchs and thinking out of the box is not considered politically correct in the US. Atm, it would be very easy for American politicians to get the support they needed to start saturation bombings of Germany or France. It's basically anything that the politicians and the oligarchs want. All they need is their media and a believable story-line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
When Ukraine rose up against Russia, Crimea became a serious National security threat to the SW. It's very fortunate that the Crimean people supported the annexation. Also, Russia will never give up Crimea. If Ukraine wants it back, it will have to fight the Russian military and that wouldn't end well for Ukraine or Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
About SE Ukraine. I think what President Putin is trying to avoid is another Yugoslavia. The US is already involved militarily and the government obviously supports geonocides. So does Western Ukraine.
And about Roshen chocolates. They were added to our boycott list when Poroshenko deployed the military against it's own people. There's just too many other amazing chocolatiers out there to ever consider buying it again. Btw, I love Belgian chocolate, especially with hazelnuts!
Who REALLY are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by UhOhXplode
I'm a frustrated American 16 yo with an extremely high IQ and a strong Christian conscience. I'm all over alternative rock, metal, shoegaze, post punk, skramz, club, and hardstyle music - you may have noticed that my avatar has everything to do with Wasted Penguinz. I'm also very much into rollerblades, tech, experimental styles (for example, Pinn Panelle), robotics, aeronautics, gaming, hockey, and cooking. I'm 5'3", weigh about 100 lbs, my natural hair color is strawberry blonde, and I have green eyes. Oh, and I'm an active swimmer and diver...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Your turn. Who REALLY are you?
I'm a not-so-much-frustrated-yet earth resident, 25 y.o. with a high enough IQ and a liberal conscience, though Christianity is my native religion too. I'm into different sorts of metal, and hard rock too. My majors are programming, both online/offline gaming (FPS mostly), and quite often --- useless web surfing like this. =)) My activities mostly imply the indoor way of life, though I also like and do swimming and bike riding. I'm 5'8'', weigh about 150 lbs, my natural hair color is black, my eyes are blue. Oh, and I use the pronoun "my" when talking about myself, not "our". =))Quote:
Originally Posted by UhOhXplode
Cool. :) 25 yo isn't that old so basically we're just 2 young people with different ideas that don't get too personal about our opinions. I mean, discussing politics is new so it's very interesting but no way it trumps checking out new bands or new rollerblade tricks or even trips to the water parks. And yeah, I noticed that a lot of 21+ people are all over hard rock or classic rock but I like hearing new stuff (like the new Of Mice and Men album, totally does pwn, btw!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Anyway, when I said "our boycott list", I meant me and my family's. My parents are boycotting Nestle too. I would never call myself "our", lol!
Btw, since you like metal, check out Of Mice and Men, Bones Exposed. Highly recommended. Highly evolved.
That thing is pretty cool, such a melodic thrash core, kinda reminds me of how I used to listen to Slipknot everyday as a student, lol ; but here every part seems to be much more intense, both the thrash core and melodic solo; the music vid rocks, btw --- looks just like my 1000th date in the town xDDDQuote:
Originally Posted by UhOhXplode
Well anyone young would be wise to bear in mind that the average age among the Russian fully English speaking participants here, is a lot higher than both Eric and UHox.
Many of the people here have personally lived through Soviet socialism, perestroika, the wild and destructive 90s in Russia, and the modern era with Putin.
They are people who managed to learn a quite different foreign language to full fluency either because of hard studies or due to moving country - which in itself is an experience that teaches a person a lot.
So in light of what I that, it's well worth listening carefully to what people like Alex, Lampada, SergeMak, Basil77, Crocodile (although he's taking a vacation from the forum), diogen(?), Iodka(?) and many others have to say (there are others, I think, but i am less sure of their age ranges, or they are less frequent participants).
They don't represent one unanimous viewpoint, but a spectrum, hence giving a broad but trustworthy source of information.
You don't have to agree with everything they say, but you should certainly respect that they are likely to have a much more relevant and well-founded view than somebody who doesn't live in the region, isn't a native Russian speaker and is too young to have a broad and mature perspective on the political, economic and social changes that Russia and the other USSR countries went through!
So take the opportunity to learn from people who had some very unique and interesting experiences and have been around on this planet a while longer than yourselves, instead of being prejudiced and hostile. If you do not agree with somebody, try to understand what causes that person to have a different viewpoint.
:roll:Quote:
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
The problem is, of all the people out there, it's mainly Ukrainians and Russians who are involved in endless arguments about the counter-terrorist operation in Ukraine. I can see why the Ukrainians are --- it's their country after all. But what about you, Russian guys? You may not notice that, but you're acting like you really have a share in that conflict, while even the official position of your country is that you're just observers. So you ARE involved, or still not? Or, maybe, you just like arguing so much you just can't resist using every opportunity? That is just confusing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_krsk
It's a really good question. I think many western people really can't understand what is the problem, and why people in the East Ukraine rebeled, and why Russians support them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
The key question here is the attitude to the WWII, and its heroes/antiheroes, and the 9th May (Victory Day). This is absolutely the key question. The treatment of veterans, the purpose to abolish the Victory Day, to make, officially, national heroes out of people like Bandera and others... and so on, and so on. You people in the west and especially in the USA have no idea how deep is that war in every Russian's blood. So yes, we ARE involved.
I am repeating, WWII is the key question.
having to emphasize an 'extremely high IQ' more often than not points to the opposite being true ...and if not then at least to a lacking level of maturity
Thrash metal FTW! And yeah, their style's a lot like The Devil Wears Prada, The World Alive, or maybe even Attack Attack (well, without the pop elements mixed in). There's so many cool bands out there. I hear a lot about Slipknot at the music forums and total props for that band. I really need to check them out more. Lol @ the 1000th date but yeah, that vid pwns too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Yeah, that's why we have the 89er's day parade every year - to commemorate and learn about the Oklahoma land rush in 1889 (our State's only 125 years old). But we don't have a Perestroika day parade so this is the best place to learn about that. But don't forget, we weren't even alive when all that happened so it's easier for older people to discuss - We have to learn the history first before we can even post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
It's true but it was only a defensive statement. And I really hope you don't believe that learning curves are more important than who somebody is. I think me and Eric just proved that they aren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by eisenherz
And you do know that a lot of important scientific discoveries were made by people with average IQ's, right? So no, it's really not an epic issue.
@ UhOh - ok, fair enough...
Пытаюсь рассказать сыну про события в Украине. Слушал, слушал и спрашивает: "А кто там Левые?". (Хочет быть на стороне левых).
Я: - Да не знаю. Вроде нет Левых. Есть Правые.
Сын: А партия "Свобода"? (Не знаю, где услышал).
Умора с ним! Нравится ему слово свобода.
Дай ему почитать вот этут статью (специально даю ссылку на уважаемое американское издание, чтобы не транслировать "путинскую пропаганду"):Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
The Silence of American Hawks About Kiev’s Atrocities | The Nation
А насчёт так называемой партии "Свобода"... Вот цитата из википедии (статья про Бабий Яр):
Так вот, для партии "Свобода", эти ребятки из "украинской вспомогательной полиции", которыми руководили эсэсовцы, являются национальными героями.Quote:
За два дня 29-30 сентября 1941 зондеркоманда 4а под командованием штандартенфюрера Пауля Блобеля (входившая в состав айнзатцгруппы С под командованием д-ра Раше) при участии[уточнить] частей вермахта (6-й армии) и украинской вспомогательной полиции расстреляли в этом овраге 33 771 человека (это количество не включает малолетних детей до 3-х лет, которых тоже убивали в эти два дня, но не считали[6]). На этом расстрелы не прекратились. Дальнейшие расстрелы евреев прошли 1, 2, 8 и 11 октября 1941.
I think I could answer that rather easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Most of Ukrainians are Slavs, they also were involved with Russia economically and culturally for many decades and even centuries, until collapse of the USSR. Many Ukrainians speak Russian in every day life.
My mother was born in Central part of Ukraine, West from Kiev and has lived there for 20 years, so she is Ukrainian by blood but Russian by citizenship.
My uncle holds dual citizenship (Russian/Ukrainian).
I have two cousins in Crimea.
To me Ukrainians are no different than my mother or my uncle or my cousins.
Many Russians have relatives in Ukraine as well, I suspect they have similar thoughts.
If you have a good look on Russians and Ukrainians - we are but ONE nation, separated by political games.
The thread about Russophobia might be the best place for your insinuations and accusations regarding the possible quarrelsomeness of Russians. One new fault of them, in a long line of accusations coming from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
And speaking about "confusing"; it's quite "confusing" that you have been a member of this forum for at least two years, AND speak Russian, yet you pretend to be unaware of Russia's ties with Ukraine, and its interests there. That's simply not credible ignorance coming from you.
What were the real motives for the question, I wonder?
So the latest fault of Russians according to you, are that they like to quarrel for the sake of it?
I'm still waiting to hear you say anything remotely positive about Russia or Russian people, two years after you joined the forum.
The insults, accusations and insinuations are clocking up on a weekly basis though, which begs the question: Why on earth participate in a forum full of such all-round awful people, by your own admission?
That's what I find "confusing".
If I were to assume who I would get my words twisted by, I would in no way be mistaken =)) Who else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
I said no word about the quarrelsomeness of anyone, I just presumed some guys might just like arguing, without even having to quarrel. The transition you made could not be made by mistake, it was a deliberate act of word twisting.
And what I really meant was, under no circumstances should the eastern Ukrainian operation be a war between Ukraine and Russia, right? (I think the majority of people on both sides will say yes); but by the numerous arguments about that on the web, one could say it is...
I hope they become two friendly nations some day. But two nations can't be "one".Quote:
Originally Posted by hddscan
A nice example of ignorance. Go learn the basics ;) All the way down to how and where Russia descends from? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
And that's what you believeQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
But I was answering your question about what Russians believe, I hope you got the picture.
I do know history. Russia chose its own way at the end of the medieval ages, and so did the current Ukrainian lands. You can't just go all the way down and restore what was 1000 years ago. If you think you can, fine --- how about making Ulan Bator your capital based on your confederation with the Mongols in the 13-14th centuries? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by iCake
You know what you're doing right? Comparing an ass with a finger :D And you're the one who accused others of word twisting. I don't see how your "притягивание за уши" is better :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
And you do know that the Ukraine was a part of the Russian empire, don't you? Maybe, you just forgot this but I will remind you that there was no such state as Ukraine before the fall of the USSR?
Maybe. But you forgot that people in the East Ukraine and people in Russia ARE one nation (Russians) at least because those regions have always been Russian inhabited by Russian people, and only abt. 100 years ago were included in the territory of Ukraine, and it was just formal for them since it was one country anyway (USSR). Most people in the East are culturally, mentally, and ethnically Russians, and they ARE one nation with us who live in Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
This would have been a good opportunity for you to attempt to prove me wrong by denying that that you dislike Russians, and, for example saying that you appreciate Russian culture, people, the nation, the food, the literature -- anything! But you can't, can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Or prove that you cared enough to learn the absolute basics of Russian history, such as the fact that it has a common history with Ukraine, going back at least 1000 years. Anyone who took history in a European school would be aware of that. Else, it's one of the first things that's mentioned in any encyclopedia article on Russian history. Additionally, almost every major European country has been fighting with Russia in, or over, Ukraine at some point or another. That's certainly part of European history as taught in schools across the continent.
To know Russian and not be aware of this, doesn't add up.
It would be very difficult to think of Ukraine as being anything but Russian. The capital of Rus was moved to Kiev by Prince Oleg of Novgorod (around 862) where Vladimir the Great started the baptisms of Kievan-Rus and established ties (mostly due to his marriage to the Byzantine Princess, Anna) with Byzantium where Russian laws were ceated and the Slavonic and Cyrillic alphabets were invented. And even if all that happened in the Middle Ages, you can see what Russia was from 1533-1894.
In 1533, despite the Mongol invasions and the Lithuanians, the Russian border was still near Kiev and the NE borderlands ("Ukraine") were part of Russia (including Kharkiv). Poland and Lithuania were controlling the rest of the borderlands at that time.
Between 1533 and 1689, Russia expanded till Kiev was on it's border. And between 1689 and 1801, even the Western borderlands became part of the Russian Empire.
So my question is what is a Ukrainian? Are they the people that Prince Oleg of Novgorod conquered? But even if they are then how could somebody prove they are a Ukrainian and not a Russian? I mean mixed marriages do happen.
How about the absolute basics of the Russian language? Я могу продолжить на русском и сказать, что меряться здесь тем, у кого больше связей с русской культурой и специфических знаний, которые и только которые, по мнению некоторых, дают право находиться на этом форуме, глупо и неуместно. А вы? =))Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Again you are not denying it. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
You haven't got a single nice thing to say about Russia, and for whatever reason you don't know, or pretend not to know the most basic facts of Russian history.
Yet, I have to congratulate you on your excellent Russian; it seems you do not need to participate here to improve your Russian language skills, at least.
Your English is also good enough that you don't need the help that this forum could offer. Which brings me back to the question from my earlier post.
The "mystery man" act is both tiresome and silly. It undermines your credibility and reflects badly on you however you turn it. Either way, you appear like a person with a negative agenda.
Eric also appreciates epic music and when he says that Ukraine and Russia are two different countries, he's right.
President Putin said, "Only God knows why Crimea was ever given to Ukraine.". He also said the same thing about NovoRossiya. But he's wrong.
The Kremlin knows why. Kievan-Rus is where Belarus, Russia, and the borderlands were born. And it's really sad that the birthplace of Russia was neglected but it was. So now Russia and it's birthplace are 2 sovereign nations. That's why President Putin can't interfere militarily without creating an International issue. I mean, "Only God knows why..." isn't a good explanation for giving up the birthplace of a nation.
I think Ukraine will have to split now but until it does, it's still only Ukraine and I hope the new cease-fire works.
Ukraine agrees to second cease-fire as fighting worsens
Also don't forget, there's a lot of people in the US that are always critisizing the US but they're still citizens so they belong here. There's a lot I like about my country but that's not true for everyone.
He says they are two different *nations*. This is not quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by UhOhXplode
You strangely jump from Kievan-Rus to 21st century forgetting about Russian Empire and the USSR all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by UhOhXplode
Ukraine is only independent for 23 years, before that were no Ukraine as a state.
Misunderstanding between the West and the East of Ukraine(excluding Crimea) however was not born in 21st century, neither it was created during USSR times. It goes back to Russian Empire times.
And "thanks" to modern politics of external influencers those misunderstandings were blown up to enormous hatred.
The US, the EU and Russia are all guilty of creating that hatred.
However when Russia protects its national security, the EU protects its economical projects and the US cherishes its goal of political and economical hegemony.
And Ukrainians are deliberately and methodically torn apart based on those misunderstandings that were created during Russian Empire times.
Ukraine and Russia are both Slavic and before the breakup of the USSR, Ukraine was just part of Russia. But after the breakup, Ukraine became a separate nation with it's own President and it's own Constitution. The Russian leaders should have understood the consequences for letting that happen. Well, now they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by lodka
That's because my knowledge about the Russian Empire and the USSR is still kind of limited. I have studied a few of the Tsars and the October Revolution but there's still a lot missing. There's a lot more I need to study.Quote:
Originally Posted by hddscan
And yeah, I do know that Ukraine didn't even exist (except as part of the USSR) till around 1991. The ethnic Ukrainians did try to build a State several times during the October Revolution but they all fell apart and they never covered a huge part of Ukraine.
I also studied the Polish and Lithuanian interventions during the time of the Tsars. There was a lot of hostility then between ethnic Ukrainians and Russians. And yeah, the US and the EU are using that hostility for a Ukrainian land grab.
That won't end well since the US and the EU will do the same things to Ukraine that they did to Russia from 1991-1999. That should be enough to make the Ukrainians US/EU-hostile. Ukraine has stepped into a serious trap.
But Russia can't just say, "Only God knows why..." because they have to share the responsibility for what happened. They knew Ukraine was unstable and that Ukrainians didn't have any experience running a country. So they shouldn't have let it become a separate country. Maybe an autonomous region, but definitely not a country. Especially considering how Ukrainians collaborated with the Nazis during WW2.
I mean if Russia could really say that Ukraine and Russia was one nation then the US/EU couldn't have started a violent coup - or at least Russia could have intervened militarily. Russia should have understood that the West wouldn't see it as one nation.
That's why Russia didn't send any troops or military equipment to Ukraine and why Russia isn't flying warplanes over the Donbass to create a no-fly zone.
It was just a huge mistake to let Ukraine become a separate nation - with it's own President - after the USSR break-up.
"Country" and "nation" are not the same things, at least in Russian.Quote:
Originally Posted by UhOhXplode
My bad. People use those words interchangeably here but they are different. So yeah, now I get what you meant. Russia and Ukraine may be 2 different Countries but they are the same Nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by lodka
And Ukraine definitely has the same common descent, history, culture, and language that Russia has. They really should stress the difference here but they don't. Thanks for letting me know. :)Quote:
Nation: A large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.
Actually, Ukraine was not "part of Russia" during the USSR era, and that is one of the main reasons there are problems now. Ukraine was a separate republic, in the USSR.
I am too fed up with the whole business to explain it though.
The USSR was a union with some similarities to the EU, but of course a closer union than the EU, and a different type of governance.
In terms of closeness between the Soviet republics, it was somewhere in between states of the USA and the nations of the EU.
Read this to understand the organisation of the USSR into Republics and Regions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republi...e_Soviet_Union
Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republics of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This system worked well during Soviet days, as far as I understand, but it lead to several wars after the breakup of the USSR, since a number of regions had been in the "wrong" Soviet republic (which didn't matter much during Soviet days, but suddenly became important when regional languages were pushed hard in the new countries, or ethnicity/religion became a big deal.
As a result these regions subsequently ended up in the "wrong" country when the USSR split up. Examples: Nagorno Karabach, Pridnestrovie, Gaugazia, Crimea and possibly Donbass, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and probably some more places that I don't know about. Hopefully the names should sound familiar - there have been wars or conflicts in all of these places, mainly in the 1990s.
In the USSR ethnicity, religion and language had been somewhat secondary to the Soviet ideal of a strong union, and the State had prevented extreme regionalism.
The problem was: Soviet leaders had transferred regions from one Soviet republic to another for, in hindsight, unwise reasons. Of course, they envisaged the USSR would last indefinitely and did not realise what a huge problem they created with their grand gestures or administrative decisions taken in Moscow... The Donbass area was given to the Ukrainian ASSR in such a gesture, in the 1950s.
As a result it ended up in the modern nation of Ukraine, despite being historically Rusisan.
(When reading Wiki, bear in mind that a lot of the edits of these types of articiles in Wiki were traced back to US gov't agencies before it was revealed and they smartened up. Now they probably use proxies and aliases.)