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Thread: Lenin: Good or bad?

  1. #1
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    Lenin: Good or bad?

    Almost everything I've read about Lenin has been bad, but I've read/heard some things that Lenin was a hero...? Did he do very good things AND very bad things?
    "He was too absurd to make me angry. Indeed, it was a waste of energy, for if you were going to be angry with this man you would be angry all the time."

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    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Do you do always bad things or only good things? How can one ask something like that about a major politician of the XX century? Besides, many of the things he did can be viewed both good and bad depending on whom you ask.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    I asked because I hear only good or only bad opinions of Lenin, and I don't know his achievements/bad deeds well enough to have an opinion.
    "He was too absurd to make me angry. Indeed, it was a waste of energy, for if you were going to be angry with this man you would be angry all the time."

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    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Than please give definitions of terms "good" and "bad" to classify his deeds.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  5. #5
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molodets View Post
    Almost everything I've read about Lenin has been bad,
    Have you heard the saying that "The victor writes the history"?
    What people are taught in school and from media as history then forms what they think of as "facts".
    But there are two sides to every story. Some things about him were good and some were bad.

    In your case, assuming that you are American, then you come from a country that hates everything that Lenin stood for. Consider that you might have been the victim of propaganda... Some of the things that you have heard about Lenin are false or exaggerated.

    Like people here have already said, there are usually two sides to a story.

    The Russian state before 1917 (year of the revolution led by Lenin) was hugely unfair, corrupt and inefficient. 90% lived terrible lives, with no freedom and insufficient food, housing and clothing. Lenin wanted to change this because he believed in equality and freedom. Why should some of his countrymen starve when others lived in ridiculous oppulence?

    The revolution that Lenin took part in led to the deaths of lots of people who might otherwise not have died. It meant that some people lost property that they valued or even needed. Some people starved to death in the first years after the revolution. It brought about lots of chaos. Socialism was forced on some people that did not want it - including religious people and people from ethnic minorities that were not interested in being part of a socialist state. Some people were unfairly exiled or executed in the tumult

    All of this sounds very unpleasant and are reasons for many to hate Lenin.

    Lenin, as I understand it, was a political genius in that he could translate the abstract writings of Marx into practical ideas that could be used in a country as Russia. Many of the things he said are relevant for todays society.

    In the 1930s the change in Russia and the USSR was astonishing - foreigners who visited were blown away. The Russians had gone from a people of mostly opressed illiterate and starving peasants to a modern and forward thinking superpower.
    Things were getting better. They took a horrible beating in the war, but without the USSR, Germany would have won....
    The old Russia probably would not have been able to fight like the USSR did. Things got better and better up until about the 1970s. I think. None of this would have happened without Lenin.

    One might think of "The maximum amount of benefit to the largest possible group of people" as an indicator of whether something is bad or good. Would Russia have been better off if Lenin had never been born?
    Not sure!


    I ran "lenin hero" in Youtube and got this:

    An old British documentary that is a bit more objective than the Soviet meterial but still seems to have a high view of Lenin:


  6. #6
    Властелин
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    In your case, assuming that you are American, then you come from a country that hates everything that Lenin stood for. Consider that you might have been the victim of propaganda... Some of the things that you have heard about Lenin are false or exaggerated.
    I'm just astonished at how some "chosen ones" can get personal on here and easily get away with it.

    Molodets, don't pay too much attention to those leftists who hate the U.S. and at the same time would assume everyone speaking rather good English to be Americans.

    As for the subject, I'd say he'd done a lot of terrible things, but from what I've read on that, I have an impression he realized WHAT he'd done and tried to set the things back to normal, but then he died, and his successors continued pursuing even harsher politics. It's the time after 1925 what the USSR is mostly hated for, things like mass murders, mass starvation enforcement, etc.

  7. #7
    Hanna
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    Sigh! I am mentioning the bad things, aren't I ?
    I just want to encourage that this person is trying to think for himself.

    Where better to ask opinions about Lenin than in a Russian forum? The American view of Lenin is pretty much 100% dark, I think. It's well known what the US feels about communism.

    So; he's already heard "your" side of the story, that Lenin was an evil mass murderer.

    There may be someone here who feels that Lenin was a fantastic person who did only good. I don't. But I think he had many good intentions and that some of the things that he did were good.

    If this is a troll question, which I am beginning to think that it might be, then I regret spending 15 minutes of my weekend on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by it-ogo View Post
    Than please give definitions of terms "good" and "bad" to classify his deeds.
    Good = improving living conditions for his people. Bad = unneccesary violence. You didn't understand what I meant by good/bad? An example: Hitler was bad. He may have done some good things for some people, but I certainly don't think Hitler was a hero. And I know more about Hitler than I do Lenin... which is why I asked...
    "He was too absurd to make me angry. Indeed, it was a waste of energy, for if you were going to be angry with this man you would be angry all the time."

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    I'm just astonished at how some "chosen ones" can get personal on here and easily get away with it.

    Molodets, don't pay too much attention to those leftists who hate the U.S. and at the same time would assume everyone speaking rather good English to be Americans. ...
    "Hate"? You are wrong again and why don't you let people decide for themselves whether or not to pay attention?

  10. #10
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    It's interesting how they pronounce Russian names. Many of them are pronounced correctly, so that any Russian will understand. Only some are a little bit strange. like Александрович.
    We shouldn't forget that Lenin's goal was to take power, not to help someone. And they won because of deception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    In your case, assuming that you are American,
    Whether I'm American or Canadian or British is irrelevant, unless I asked something like 'Why isn't Putin awesome like Obama?' (Which I didn't ask). BTW, not all Americans are how you've depicted them here.
    "He was too absurd to make me angry. Indeed, it was a waste of energy, for if you were going to be angry with this man you would be angry all the time."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    ... would assume everyone speaking rather good English to be Americans.
    Rather good??? English is my native language!!!
    "He was too absurd to make me angry. Indeed, it was a waste of energy, for if you were going to be angry with this man you would be angry all the time."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Sigh! I am mentioning the bad things, aren't I ?
    I just want to encourage that this person is trying to think for himself.

    Where better to ask opinions about Lenin than in a Russian forum?

    He's already heard "your" side of the story, that Lenin was an evil mass murderer.
    [Lampada, since she's talking to me directly, can I please talk the same way to her?]

    Open your eyes and see what I really said about that character.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molodets View Post
    Rather good??? English is my native language!!!
    Sure, I just assumed she might not know that for sure, and didn't want to reveal anything about it to her. I assumed the things would be better this way, but I'm really sorry if it offended you in any way.

    Btw, can you now get on the 2nd chat?

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Sigh! I am mentioning the bad things, aren't I ?
    I just want to encourage that this person is trying to think for himself.

    Where better to ask opinions about Lenin than in a Russian forum? The American view of Lenin is pretty much 100% dark, I think. It's well known what the US feels about communism.

    So; he's already heard "your" side of the story, that Lenin was an evil mass murderer and is interested in the alternative and I gave one story.

    There may be someone here who feel that Lenin was a fantastic person who did only good. I don't. But I think he had many good intentions and that some of the things that he did were good.

    If this is a troll question, which I am beginning to think that it might be, then I regret spending 15 minutes of my weekend on it.
    Hanna, how do you like these Lenin's quotes?
    A lie told often enough becomes the truth. - "Многократно повторенная ложь становится правдой"

    There are no morals in politics

    It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.


  16. #16
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    Lenin was an evil mass murderer.
    That's not far from true. Although such view gives nothing in understanding history.
    Anyway, Hanna, it is an interesting question, which is very complicated, and it deserves to be considered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    If this is a troll question, which I am beginning to think that it might be, then I regret spending 15 minutes of my weekend on it.
    I have not gotten personal with you at all, and have explained my question several times now. I appreciate your reply, but just don't understand this attitude. But hey, if you think I'm a troll, go for it.
    "He was too absurd to make me angry. Indeed, it was a waste of energy, for if you were going to be angry with this man you would be angry all the time."

  18. #18
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Lenin was an evil mass murderer.
    It's true. Just as bad as Stalin was.

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molodets View Post
    I have not gotten personal with you at all, and have explained my question several times now. I appreciate your reply, but just don't understand this attitude. But hey, if you think I'm a troll, go for it.
    The thing is that questions about who was Lenin in itself more likely than not could provoke highly emotional responses. That would qualify it as potentially trolling. That'a all. Not to worry.

  20. #20
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molodets View Post
    I have not gotten personal with you at all, and have explained my question several times now. I appreciate your reply, but just don't understand this attitude. But hey, if you think I'm a troll, go for it.
    Sorry, clearly I was wrong. I got irritated by another person who wrote in the thread and suspected trolling since that sort of thing has happened in this forum before. Apologies and hope my response was helpful.

    Also, a lot of very young people come onto this forum and ask questions. I got the impression that you fell into this category too but it seems I was mistaken there too.

    Well, Lenin is a sensitive subject no doubt, and I think I've said more than enough. I am not even Russian, and nothing that Lenin has done has affected me personally.

    @Lampada
    - Interesting quotes and I appreciate your views which, no doubt are well founded.

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