Thread: KGB and Russian mafia

I think that the history of the corruption of the LAPD going back to prohibion times (i.e. real Mafia) is self evident and has been of lately the standard to which current allegations are measured.

It is well known that the LAPD has been trying hard to overcome the stigma of their former corruptness. Good god, their hiring practises take a year or so to complete with batteries of tests, written psychologogical, oral psychological, an evaluation before a board. Not to mention a background investigation that goes through every detail of your life and anyone who knows you also. Oh and the polygragh which is their biggest downfall as it can easily be beat by anyone trained......this is where the "bad eggs" can slip through while keeping out some of the good guys.

Anyway now I'm drifting away from "Russian Mafia"
but if you still think the LAPD is squeaky clean are clean here are a few sites to visit.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... boyer.html
http://www.streetgangs.com/topics/rampart/

And a site about the real Mafia.
http://www.search-international.com/Art ... merica.htmr

I never said the LAPD or ANY police force in any part of America is squeaky clean. But your example is of an incident in the local gang unit, not vice and organized crime units. And corruption in one department of the police force does not mean that everyone in the whole LAPD or District Attorney's office is on the take.
Do you have any examples of these people taking payoffs from the "Russian Mafia" in Los Angeles?

Originally Posted by JB

Do you have any examples of these people taking payoffs from the "Russian Mafia" in Los Angeles?

No I don't. But that is my whole point. Russian criminals are not Mafia. They probably don't have the power to buy cops and politicians. But the real Mafia did (maybe still does) have that power and is documented.

So you have a reference to the Italian ("real") Mafia buying off the cops and DA in Los Angeles within the last 20 years?
And the Russia Mafia has a lot more cash than those punk gangs in your previous reference.

Originally Posted by JB

So you have a reference to the Italian ("real") Mafia buying off the cops and DA in Los Angeles within the last 20 years?

None. The LAPD are a different breed these days, with a "new" set of problems. I think, though they (the Mafia) still are supposedly powerfull, they don't have the weight that they used to have. Most of the families were broken up and some imprisioned by the 1980's. But there was plenty of corruption at one time, just ask Serpico.

Wouldn't this be more appropriate name for Russian organized crime, "Solntsevskaya"? Or doesn't it have enough of that tabloid feel for the cravings of our sensationally starved citizens?

Here's a few sites I found relating to "Russian Mafia". It seems even Pravda can't stop using that phrase....
http://english.pravda.ru/accidents/21/9 ... mafia.html

www.tarquingunnell.co.uk/MafiaPage-RussianMafia.htm

Originally Posted by JB

Here's a few sites I found relating to "Russian Mafia". It seems even Pravda can't stop using that phrase....
http://english.pravda.ru/accidents/21/9 ... mafia.html

www.tarquingunnell.co.uk/MafiaPage-RussianMafia.ht m

Pravda? Well they're wrong too but I expect no less from them. Here is a quote from the second site you listed to show you why "mafia" should not be used to describe Russian crime syndicates. It is confusing.

" The Brighton Beach area of New York City became the hub for Russian organized crime in this country during the mid-1970s. There, Russian criminals developed a working relationship with the La Cosa Nostra (LCN) which allowed them to establish fuel tax fraud schemes in certain areas of New York. The LCN forced the Russian criminals involved in these frauds to pay a large portion of their proceeds as a "tax" to operate.

"

Here we find Russian criminals doing buisiness with the real Mafia, La Cosa Nostra. They are separate entities and need to be labelled that way in order to accurately reflect the situation we have here. When we say "La Cosa Nostra" we know specifically that we are dealing with Italian-American branch of the Mafia out of sicily. When you say, "Russian Mafia" , you have blurred the lines.

Anyway, I read an official report from the FBI on organized crime just recently and they did not use the word "Mafia" when referring to Russian Organized Crime.

Originally Posted by JB

The Russian's in Los Angeles that are involved in organized crime are not nice "immigrants" who couldn't find a job and got into drug running and prostitution as a side line . These guys are here illegally, usually on work visas from the money laundering business fronts that are owned by their crimminal Russian friends. Also without visas they come into California through Mexico. They travel back and forth between America and Russia because they have businesses (criminal, illegal) in BOTH countries. These are not stupid amatures.

Of course, there are some professional criminals (and with criminal "roots" in Russia, actually).
But I can remember only *one* professional criminal of this sort: Vyacheslav Ivan'kov (aka "Yaponchik"). BTW, when he tried to really do something illegal in USA (I don't remember, what) he was placed into jail without much hesitation.
Looking at the problem from other side, I heard (personally) about *many* cases, when people were lured into some kind of criminal business only when they came to USA.

Originally Posted by JB

And as for Britannica's definition, that is about 50 years behind the times.

I wonder, why people spend their own money (essential amount, AFAIK) for such an obsolete source of information.

The use of the term "mafia" in reference to organized crime syndicates of all nationalities is well established in the language of both Russia and America. It doesn't matter what the reference books say or how loud the linguists bemoan the "improper" use of the word. Very few people base their use of language on these experts opinion, and will continue to say "mafia" in reference to organized crime groups. But it seems some experts have differing opinions. Webster's New World Dictionary defines mafia as "any exclusive or dominating group".
If you want to learn about the extent of Russian organized crime in America just Google "Russian mafia in America" and you will get articles that talk about more than "just one" professional Russian criminal.

Originally Posted by JB

The use of the term "mafia" in reference to organized crime syndicates of all nationalities is well established in the language of both Russia and America. It doesn't matter what the reference books say or how loud the linguists bemoan the "improper" use of the word. Very few people base their use of language on these experts opinion, and will continue to say "mafia" in reference to organized crime groups. But it seems some experts have differing opinions. Webster's New World Dictionary defines mafia as "any exclusive or dominating group".
If you want to learn about the extent of Russian organized crime in America just Google "Russian mafia in America" and you will get articles that talk about more than "just one" professional Russian criminal.

Very well, I took your advice.

Among first 10 links, given by Google, at least 6 are announcing book, called "Russian Mafia in America: Immigration, Culture, and Crime" (James O. Finckenauer, Elin J. Waring) The announce for book is free to download (for example, www.wjin.net/Pubs/3228.doc). So, let's read, what the authors themselves are writing:

The most interesting, and perhaps most surprising, finding of this study is that the authors do not find that a Russian Mafia exists. They find a distinction between “organized crime and crime that is organized.” They find that Russian emigres involved in criminal activity are criminal entrepreneurs and extortionists who do not have the honor and respect of their community (most of whom, of course, are law-abiding). There is little evidence that these Russian criminals are corrupting U.S. officials, and the illegal markets in the U.S. (e.g., drugs and gambling) do not lend themselves to domination by the Russians because of considerable competition from other criminal groups.

Isn't this exactly what I said?

Another link is to BBC news report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_repo ... /70485.stm), mostly containing usual ranting about "there may be thousands of mafia groups in Russia". Do they saying anything about "Russian Mafia" in USA? Surely, they do! Prepare for big surprise:

Mafia invades New York

When the Russian mafia began to move into the United States it chose Vyacheslav Ivankov, known as Yaponchik or "Little Japanese", to head its New York operation.

He was convicted in November 1997 in a Ј3.5m ($5.9m) extortion case...

and so on.

Remaining 2 links don't seem to be containg anything interesting.

No comments are needed, I think.

You shouldn't limit yourself to only one search engine. I did a Yahoo search and found J.Finckenauer's CV, which is quite impressive except for that the fact that his "study" is based on only 3 east coast states. And since he is a university professor and at the time he wrote his book he was in academia and not law enforcement, I thought you might like to see what the California Attorney General was saying at the same time (1996).
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/rusorg1.htm#tc

Originally Posted by JB

I'll be seeing some of these people this weekend. After working for many years in law enforcement and the judiciary they'll be glad to hear that you don't consider them experts on organized crime (even though fighting the various "mafias" has been the main focus of their careers).
And I won't even mention the "bought off" accusation. That is beyond stupid.

Originally Posted by DDT

I think that the history of the corruption of the LAPD going back to prohibion times (i.e. real Mafia) is self evident and has been of lately the standard to which current allegations are measured.

Following the reasoning in these pages, denying everything, how can you asure that this corruption of the LAPD has ever been so, were you there, DDT, to confirm that? Are the experts that wrote on this corruption really experts or simply some guys bought by obscure organizations with obscure interests?
I'd add, how we know our galaxy is 100.000 light years long, who's the expert that has measured it? And who bought that expert to say so? ...

Ok, let's call it organized crime, like the one in Malaga and other cities in southern Spain. Are you going to deny they are there commiting crime, laundering money, involved in prostitution? Where's the problem in admitting that?

Originally Posted by Sean

Is there a connection between the Mafia and the KGB. It's just a theory I heard spouted once not really sure if it's true but I'm doing an essay on the subject and if there is some valididity it might be worth looking into for me. Just interested to know what you all think.

It is absolutely true. Putin's personal friends head key Russian enterprises and the whole industries. Oficially they represent the state in state-owend companies, but in fact... Russia get sunk in corruption, 'cause theese KGB guys controll everything. But you will never hear it in the news (try to guess why ) They control the media!

Try to read this (if you familiar with Russian). Sorry, don't have English translation...
http://www.compromat.ru/main/internet/forumy.htm
This will help you to understend a real scale of the corruption and propaganda.

Originally Posted by the paul

Try to read this (if you familiar with Russian). Sorry, don't have English translation...
http://www.compromat.ru/main/internet/forumy.htm

Let me quote:

"А на русских веб-форумах - разгул ненависти, ксенофобии, расизма, антисемитизма, пропаганды насилия, аморального хамства и беснования."

Doesn't this statement look like a bit of overgeneralisation for you?

Originally Posted by the paul

This will help you to understend a real scale of the corruption and propaganda.

I'll better like to understand, why some people become so hysterical, when somebody is expressing opinions different from their own.

I'll better like to understand, why some people become so hysterical, when somebody is expressing opinions different from their own.[/quote]
U'd better speak out loud of your love to PUTIN, kid

"А на русских веб-форумах - разгул ненависти, ксенофобии, расизма, антисемитизма, пропаганды насилия, аморального хамства и беснования."

Doesn't this statement look like a bit of overgeneralisation for you?

It doesn't look like overgeneralisation TO me.

Is there a connection between the Mafia and the KGB.

Just a version. It might be a clan. They have something in St. Petersburg, I'm sure. A kind of clan business or so. The moneys directed to St. Petersburg have lately increased. And Chubais is still chief of the United Energy Systems. Many big enterprises now are newly reregistrating in St. Petersburg to leave their taxes there. Key figures of Moscow's government are being swept out to regions. Shantsev, Boss, who else? Now they are going to move the Constitutional court to SPB and then the pocket state duma may follow as well in order to supply the clan legislatively. Maybe it was them who made Eltsin to resign.

Originally Posted by the paul

"А на русских веб-форумах - разгул ненависти, ксенофобии, расизма, антисемитизма, пропаганды насилия, аморального хамства и беснования."

Doesn't this statement look like a bit of overgeneralization for you?

It doesn't look like overgeneralisation TO me.

Не знаю, у тех веб-форумах, которые я навещал, не было никакого ксенофобии, расизма, и т.п. Что, gramota.ru такой же? и тут наши русские спокойные, как большие панды... низнаю.

а наш Скорпио не ребенок

And since we have started to correct each other's English in public:

Originally Posted by scorpio

Doesn't this statement look like a bit of overgeneralisation for you?
I'll better like to understand, why some people become so hysterical, when somebody is expressing opinions different from their own.

Doesn't this statement look like a little overgeneralized [exagerrated] to you?
I would like to better understand why some people become so hysterical when sombody expresses opinions that are different from their own.

Originally Posted by the paul

This will help you to understend a real scale of the corruption and propaganda

This will help you to understand the real scale of corruption and propaganda.

Originally Posted by the paul

It is absolutely true. Putin's personal friends head key Russian enterprises and the whole industries. Oficially they represent the state in state-owend companies, but in fact... Russia get sunk in corruption, 'cause theese KGB guys controll everything. But you will never hear it in the news (try to guess why ) They control the media!

It is absolutely true. Putin's personal friends head key Russian enterprises and whole industries. Officially they represent the state in state-owned companies, but in fact... Russia gets sunk in corruption, because these KGB guys control everything. But you will never hear about it in the news (try to guess why) They control the media!

[quote=kalinka_vinnie]

Originally Posted by "the paul":lqzp1s1l

"А на русских веб-форумах - разгул ненависти, ксенофобии, расизма, антисемитизма, пропаганды насилия, аморального хамства и беснования."

Doesn't this statement look like a bit of overgeneralization for you?

It doesn't look like overgeneralisation TO me.

Не знаю, у тех веб-форумах, которые я навещал, не было никакого ксенофобии, расизма, и т.п. Что, gramota.ru такой же? и тут наши русские спокойные, как большие панды... низнаю.

а наш Скорпио не ребенок

And since we have started to correct each other's English in public:

Originally Posted by scorpio

Doesn't this statement look like a bit of overgeneralisation for you?
I'll better like to understand, why some people become so hysterical, when somebody is expressing opinions different from their own.

Doesn't this statement look like a little overgeneralized [exagerrated] to you?
I would like to better understand why some people become so hysterical when sombody expresses opinions that are different from their own.

Originally Posted by the paul

This will help you to understend a real scale of the corruption and propaganda

This will help you to understand the real scale of corruption and propaganda.

Originally Posted by the paul

It is absolutely true. Putin's personal friends head key Russian enterprises and the whole industries. Oficially they represent the state in state-owend companies, but in fact... Russia get sunk in corruption, 'cause theese KGB guys controll everything. But you will never hear it in the news (try to guess why ) They control the media!

It is absolutely true. Putin's personal friends head key Russian enterprises and whole industries. Officially they represent the state in state-owned companies, but in fact... Russia gets sunk in corruption, because these KGB guys control everything. But you will never hear about it in the news (try to guess why) They control the media![/quote:lqzp1s1l]

Thank you very much, man! Nice of you to correct my spellin! What do you use? Prompt (C) I guess? Good boy! You'd better watch yourself man...