Thread: Iran

На Аляске, на Аляске
Привыкай к минимализму.
И не верь в чужие сказки -
Не спеши построить избу.

Крокодилы - не пингвины,
И жуют не древесину.
Хоть похожи на пингвинов,
Только всё же не пингвины.

Back to the topic.

Эпиграф:
"I need a green... Крокодил!"
Мимино

Жил в Иране крокодил,
Очень желтый крокодил.
Он по улицам ходил,
По-персидски говорил
Он рассказывал про Нил.
И однажды он уплыл.

Все мы тоже как желтый крокодил,
желтый крокодил, желтый крокодил....

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Back to the topic.

Йа, ман!

Originally Posted by it-ogo

Жил в Иране крокодил,
Очень желтый крокодил.
Он по улицам ходил,
По-персидски говорил
Он рассказывал про Нил.
И однажды он уплыл.

Парень за него сходил,
-Его имя я забыл-
У крокодила спросил:
Ой, желтый крокодил!
Чего тебе там за Нил?
Вот, крокодил ответил:
Я здесь все чаю пил,
Очень хочу сладкий Нил!
Мое первое стихотворение по-русски. В самом деле мое первое вообще!

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

Мое первое стихотворение по-русску. В самом деле мое первое вообще!

Так держать!

Originally Posted by http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/07/06/iranian-canadian-convicted-of-trying-to-export-pressure-transducers/

Mahmoud Yadegari was found guilty of eight other offences, including forgery and violations of the Customs Act, related to his attempts last year to ship pressure transducers to Iran.

Misha, would you be able to comment?
Thanks.

Мазать Израиль с это род в стычка есть отьявлений злобный противоположность есть тот случай. Не раз один апартеид практика относиет и Израиль. Израиль есть к дальний тот количество расовый смешанный и терпимый на тот целый Ближний восток. Араби, кто есть вокруг 20% из население из Израиль, наслаждают, снаружи исключение, тот же правотая и благоприятная возможноть на все области в нх еврейский согражданин.

"крускяа"- CP of _____

пожаловать редактировать!

Originally Posted by крупскяа

пожаловать редактировать!

Please give us an English version of your post. Otherwise it's hard to correct.
I can hardly understand anything, except that (maybe) you support Israel. (?)

Originally Posted by крупскяа

Мазать Израиль с это род в стычка есть отьявлений злобный противоположность есть тот случай. Не раз один апартеид практика относиет и Израиль. Израиль есть к дальний тот количество расовый смешанный и терпимый на тот целый Ближний восток. Араби, кто есть вокруг 20% из население из Израиль, наслаждают, снаружи исключение, тот же правотая и благоприятная возможноть на все области в нх еврейский согражданин.

"крускяа"- CP of _____

пожаловать редактировать!

Суть злобный противоположность Израиль для апартеид не в тот, что целый Ближний восток снаружи исключение для тот же правотой и благоприятной возможность на все области, а, наоборот, в дальний исключение нх еврейский согражданин в палестинский автономия в Газа полоска.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Суть злобный противоположность Израиль для апартеид не в тот, что целый Ближний восток снаружи исключение для тот же правотой и благоприятной возможность на все области, а, наоборот, в дальний исключение нх еврейский согражданин в палестинский автономия в Газа полоска.

Крок, сдаётся мне, гугльроботранслятор не поймёт прикола. Так есть ли смысл метать бисер?

Originally Posted by Basil77

Так есть ли смысл метать бисер?

Есть. Не знаю, как другие ..., а я обхохоталась.

@Basil77
Ну, вообще-то я ещё не дошёл до такой стадии шизофрении, чтобы переписываться с гугльроботранслятором.

@gRomoZeka
Спасибо. Мне тоже импонирует твоё чувство юмора.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Крок, сдаётся мне, гугльроботранслятор не поймёт прикола. Так есть ли смысл метать бисер?

По-моему гугльроботранс с английского на русский работает гораздо лучше. Такое безобразие может получиться, когда переводится с третьего языка (робот в таком случае переводит на английский, а потом то, что получилось, на русский.)

ПС Класть, или не класть бисером - ответственный выбор каждого!

Misha, would you be able to comment?
Thanks.

Sorry for this somewhat belated reply. I've been really busy...
First off, this piece of news was completely ignored in the Iranian media. I don't really follow the cock-and-bull stories of the Iranian media anymore; but still, if they had said anything about it, I definitely would have known. So far, so normal.
Secondly, the way I figure, your question is ultimately about whether Iran's nuclear program is peaceful, which is a totally different matter. [Surely, this guy wasn't carrying nuclear stuff for his personal use in, let's say, his kitchen.]
I suppose, if the higher-ups really wanted to show transparency, they could. So there's good reason to think there has been confidential activities going on. An underground nuclear site can be kept secret fairly easily. Only the last stage, the actual atomic test, will let the cat out of the basket.
Having said that, I have my doubts about the real intentions of the arrested guy. I mean, it all seems so crude to me. Shipping the stuff from Canada (Canada???) all the way to Iran? Even the original report admits that "this clearly was not a sophisticated operation".Что-то здесь не так!
Iran already has the complete nuclear fuel cycle at it's disposal, and I guess once you can produce nuclear fuel for a reactor, providing fuel for an atomic bomb is probably only a matter of time.
-----------------------------
I just read that some people have expressed doubts about the man's nationality. His first name is Arabic, but his surname certainly sounds Iranian.

Well, speaking of Iran....

How about that nuclear scientist who claims he was kidnapped by the CIA, brought to the US and interrogated about Iran's nuclear capabilities...?

The US says he went there voluntarily.
He says he was kidnapped while on pilgrimage to Mecca.

Crazy story but I think I believe the Iranian.

Here is Euronews TV coverage on him:
http://www.euronews.net/2010/07/14/kidn ... -way-home/

Russian Times TV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G79mx...eature=related

Quoting Crocodile from here:

Misha, you might be surprised, but there was a lot of hype in the media that the opposition to Ahmadinejad in the last election was all sponsored and directed by the US and Europe. Below are just some of the points which were put forward:

1. Many of the placards were in English. Why not in Farsi? Allegedly, to show the 'work' to their masters/sponsors in the US.

2. The opposition demanding not to accept the legitimate election results was directed by the US to ultimately put a puppet government similar to Orange Revolution in Ukraine. Allegedly, the pro-US government would allow the US to loot Iranian treasures.

So, Misha, who were you working for?

Good question, Crocodile! Here's a little inside information for you. First, the two points mentioned above:

Why English placards? The ones that I had were all in Persian, but people did in fact ask me to translate a few slogans. The first thing that any sane person understands from it is that the protesters wanted the world to see them. They could just as well write their slogans in Mandarin Chinese, but fewer people would be able to read them in that case.

If it was all "for the masters to see the work", wouldn't it sound a bit dumb? Like: "Everybody look here: I got an English placard, because my sponsors want it so!"

Second, the opposition demanded not to accept the legitimate election results. The what? Legitimate? Well I tell you. The validity of the results were never proved. The opposition leaders (Mousavi and Karoubi) were simply asked to admit their defeat to the public, which they didn't.

Consider this situation: you have a president. The next presidential election is to be held by members of his own cabinet, namely the Ministry of Interior and such. This whole script is under supervision of an appointed group called "The Guardian Council", whose members have openly expressed their support for the president. Now, I don't know what you think, but I think it's a bit suspicious.

The Orange Revolution, the Velvet Revolution, these terms were heard more often than anything else in those days. Schoolboys accused their teachers of such things [after they went back to school, of course]. Rappers made fun of it. It was all too stupid to be taken seriously. As for me, it only made me take out my copies of "Animal Farm" and "Darkness at Noon". The opposition is directed by America, because they've got English placards! Can't these guys think of anything new?

Wikipedia; 2009-2010 Iranian election protests

Alright, so let me start my comments by first admitting I do not personally share the point of view of those who say the Iranian opposition was directed by the US. Neither would I think the Ukrainian Orange Revolution was directed by the US. Therefore, my comments would probably missing the hatred for the US heat required as I would just repeat what some of the other people [in Russia] were thinking.

Let me first state the obvious: the fact that you, Misha, do not think you were directed from the US does not mean those who made the hype you supported weren't directed by the US. The highest chic in politics and/or undercover operations is to use a person without the person realizing he's been used. The operative would sincerely believe he is acting on his own. Those operations are usually the most successful.

Now, let me address some of the individual points:

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

The first thing that any sane person understands from it is that the protesters wanted the world to see them.

Exactly! So, if you're opposing to YOUR government and want the other IRANIANS support your cause, you should write ALL your slogans in FARSI ONLY (and not in Mandarin or Cantonese) so YOUR PEOPLE would understand. If you want the WORLD see your placards, that means you rely on the REACTION OF THE WORLD. So, you are essentially inviting the US and Europe the other nations to press your own national government by the means they have! And, as you're not a naive person as you mentioned earlier, you might realize the other nations would never rarely act on your behalf, only if that serves their own interest. How much of being patriotic you actions were?

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

Second, the opposition demanded not to accept the legitimate election results. The what? Legitimate?

Ok, so who decides what is legitimate and what's not? A communist party in the US can never win as it's not legitimate right from the start, so it can't participate in elections. But, what if the majority of the US people want the Communist regime? We would never know as they are not asked. The bottom line is - it's the present government who decides. The US elections are a joke because both parties are essentially bought by the large capital and ultimately serve it's interest. So, the Republicans and Democrats are fighting with each other creating some kind of a show that the US is an open society but in reality there's not much difference.

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

Consider this situation: you have a president. The next presidential election is to be held by members of his own cabinet, namely the Ministry of Interior and such. This whole script is under supervision of an appointed group called "The Guardian Council", whose members have openly expressed their support for the president. Now, I don't know what you think, but I think it's a bit suspicious.

Well, it's up to the Iranians to decide. It's not any other country's business. If the Iranians want the Guardian Council to supervise the main political processes and add to the stability of the society and enforce the traditional values, it's their right. That should not be changed by the all-bought-inside-and-out-and-full-of-liars Western media negatively portraying legitimately elected Iranian President who does not want his country to be 'liberated' by the US and become totally controlled state with an average salary of a just a bit over $15 per person whilst the US people would buy the Earth piece by piece, putting the puppet governments here and there, and rule the world with their strong hand primarily by bombing the peaceful civilians and their pets. So, the Iranian President doesn't want that to happen and so he's going to some extremes which are only necessary because his enemies are ruthless, have no control, totally greedy, and only understand the brute force. So, those extremes are completely justified. And, in fact, there's not much he's doing so bad to his people. Does he conveys mass-murders? Not really. Is he doing anything close to what Saddam Hussein did? (Halabja poison gas attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Not even close. By the way, if legitimately elected Saddam Hussein wanted to kill his own civilians with gas, so that's the will of Iraqi people too. (Or, the US was behind this wrongdoing. Whichever you like better.)

Anyways, I think you got the picture. So, what do you think of that? (Please, try to abstain from granting titles of ' ', 'brainwashed', and alike. Thanks in advance.)

Iran is really interesting because it's an example of a government that is lead by neither economical, nor ideological principles, but religious ones. That is quite unusual.

(although I realise it's probably not "interesting" if you find yourselves in trouble with such a government..... particularly if it uses the death penalty etc, like Iran does - or if you get fed up and want some change....).

In Europe, religion stopped being able to influence governments some time between the protestant reformation and perhaps the 19th century... People stopped believing.. and even those who do, do not believe that it is God's will for the Church to run any countries, or for Biblical rules to be the law of any country (imagine living in a country with old testament laws applied!)
It seems that in Islam, it's common for people to believe that Islamic laws should be national laws.


As long as Iran does whatever it wants to do within it's own borders, it's not my business. Although I'd think it would be much better if the death penalty wasn't used or any torture or discrimination against women was stopped.

There is so much propaganda surrounding Iran that it's impossible to know whether most people support the present government or not. Whether they want a Western style "democracy" or not. Since the present governement got instated by a popular revolution, I imagine it could be taken down by a popular revolution too..... if people really wanted to. Or???

Another problem - so many Iranians have left the country that perhaps the people who could achieve change are no longer around! There are SO many Iranians who have sought political asylum in Europe. My impression is that they were just fed up with the situation in Iran. I know a few such people and although they are not strongly anti-Iran, they are definitely do not support the current regime.

It would be good if it was possible to run a fair referendum there and find out what people really wanted.

My grandfather has been travelling regularly to Iran since the 1960s for business (he stopped a few years ago). He says he really enjoyed the trips before the revolution, but after that he didn't enjoy going there anymore. Previously it was possible to have a nice beach holiday in Iran apparently, but post-revolution, it wasn't. However, there was no change at all in business for him.

I agree about what Mischa said about Saudi Arabia. The only thing the two countries have in in common is that Islamic law is state law. Seems to me it is more harshly implemented in Saudi Arabia though. I don't like Saudi Arabia.

"Interesting" comments by the Saudi leadership to the US revealed by Wikileaks (bomb Iran). Why would they want that?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Iran is really interesting because it's an example of a government that is lead by neither economical, nor ideological principles, but religious ones. That is quite unusual.