Thread: How bad off are Russians in reality?

First, thanks to anyone's comments.

@scotcher:

Yes, I quite intentionally enclosed "liberals" in double quotes (as well as "reforms"). That's the term not me, but these guys used to describe themselves. I'm not sure they are right... and I don't care much either. Maybe it's all wrong, but for now in Russia term "liberal" is too much associated with yeltsins, gaydars and chubaises, and too much sounds like a swear word. It's too late to fix now... easier to fix some dictionaries instead

@Zeus:

Claiming Yeltsin is guilty really is oversimplification, but claiming he
is responsible is just Right Thing. Do you deny his responsibility for evens happened?

The President of the state is principially responsible for all things happening in his country. If he can't stand the responsibility, he must resign and free the place for somebody, who suits better to this job. This just the thing Yetsin did... in December 1999. I think, it was first (and, obviously, last) smart thing he did for all 9 years of his presidency.

@TronDD:

Yes, you're right: most of the economic problems of (at these time) Soviet Union started in Gorbachev times. It all started with his economic innovations: "Cooperation", "Joint Ventures", etc. What started with
Gorbachev as "problems" just turned into "catastrophe" in Yeltsin's times. In these sense definitely Yeltsin is true Gorby's successor.

Yes, you're right too: things start to get better in 1998. Actually, "liberal" reforms came to a quite predictable end in august 1998, and then first "anti-liberal" (some even call it "communistic") government of Russia, headed by Yevgeny Primakov and Yuri Maslyukov, was established. They started more or less reasonable economic politics (for first time from 1991), so the results were evident.

However, even Primakov's appointment wasn't much Yeltsin's merit. He was appointed by State Duma decree (and despite serious Yeltsinist's resistance).

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Claiming Yeltsin is guilty really is oversimplification, but claiming he
is responsible is just Right Thing. Do you deny his responsibility for events happened?

The President of the state is principially responsible for all things happening in his country. If he can't stand the responsibility, he must resign and free the place for somebody, who suits better to this job. This just the thing Yetsin did... in December 1999. I think, it was first (and, obviously, last) smart thing he did for all 9 years of his presidency.

Small addition. During Ельцин's period everybody from our government was telling us that the economic situation is improving, the country is developing, and everything is ok, while in every region far from Moscow and other big towns we could see empty fields, rotten machines, and farming buildings without windows and doors. It says for itself. They either knew nothing about the country which shows their «professionalism» or just lied that must cause a court examination.

Even you everyone dicussed this earlier here are some costs in Chicago, USA.

car insurance per month: $100
cell phone bill per month: $40
gallon of milk: $2.99
gallon of gas: $1.61
24 pack of Coca Cola: $5.99
movie theather ticket: $8.00
music CD: $15.00

Things can be expensive.

How much are Russian taxes? Just curious since I pay a lot for things like property and income taxes, plus things like vehicle registrations, permits, etc. Plus if you fail to have any of the government required permits, insurance, etc., they fine you a few hundred dollars.

Good point drafter. I am also interested in Russian taxes and such. Yah we pay permits, taxes, fees anf fines crazy. If we don't we pay more and more. Luckly I am good with my money and such. What is up with Russian taxes???? Thanx

Originally Posted by drafter

How much are Russian taxes? Just curious since I pay a lot for things like property and income taxes, plus things like vehicle registrations, permits, etc. Plus if you fail to have any of the government required permits, insurance, etc., they fine you a few hundred dollars.

I only know one thing for sure. The income tax in Russia is flat 13%. It has not always been the case, I think it started only two years ago.

Jesus. I believe my father pays 60%!

13% would be fine with me. Between state and federal I pay at least 25%. Then I pay at least a couple thousand a year in property taxes.

Originally Posted by drafter

13% would be fine with me. Between state and federal I pay at least 25%. Then I pay at least a couple thousand a year in property taxes.

Don't forget there are social security fees on top of it. And the business taxes are completely different, and are pretty hard as far as I know.

The only flat we can rent in Yekaterinburg is a 2 bedroomed flat with a small kitchen with no room to sit, only cook, a small living room and a bathroom. There is a small balcony but only to put washing out to dry. It is not that expensive for us to rent but is the largest flat we could find. It is not very good for there are my parents and us 3 kids.

When I was in Saint Petersburg, I noted a large amount of beggars, which I didn't mind in the slightest, and occasionally dropped 5 рублей, street performers, which I was impressed by, and gypsies who tried to sexually assault my group, and whom I was compelled to gun down with the cheap пистолет I was offered on the Метро.

Russians(and most people of other countries) are pretty knowledgeable about the world around them. I suppose every country has its uneducated people, but the US is fairly bad for its educated people not knowing much about the world.

I think you would be very surprised.
I have met and known PLENTY of people from Russia and various other parts of the world. Most have only been to 2 or 3 countries ( if even that ) and only have a media based view on the rest of the world. 30% of the Americans I know have been to 5-10 countries and live among dozens of cultures.
Immigration is out of control in this country, so the American exposure to other cultures is extreme.
Their is this opinion going around in Europe, particularly among the Socialists that Europeans have a thurally greater amount of knowledge about the world then the Americans. This is apparently to discredit Americans and the more "independent" based political structure hated so dearly by Europeans, despite the fact that it is for this political structure that much of Europe has half the freedom and happiness they have, not to mention that Socialism has proven every single time it's been used to not work ( the Soviet Union being among them.
However, That THEORY about Americans is literally impossible. It's also usually shared by Europeans who have met very few Americans and/or only met a single class of Americans.
America has more military stations in more countries then anyone else, more trade with foreign nations, more immigration and more available education.
These things give even the average American significant knowledge about other countries and cultures and first hand exposure to them, in addition to text. We also have two news stations ( Fox News and CNN ) who report events from around the globe on national TV LIVE ( as it's happening, no editing ) allowing viewers to see things for what they are without editing details in and out.
If you think that America doesn't care about the rest of the world, then think about the billions of American dollars every year spent to help people from around the world.
Exactly how much does Russia spend to help other countries in need?
It also shows on a military level. We put billions of dollars in to precision weaponry ( which I have worked in the promotional field of ) designed for humane purposes ( such as bombing the interior of a target building and nothing else.
I also watched on Fox News, a live report from a journalist who was running the camera in the middle of a fierce firefight as an American medic patched up a wounded Iraqi soldier while bullets were flying, and this happened all throughout the war.
We also learned that Iraqis were being forced to suicide attack US troops with their families being held hostage, so we went out of our way ( even risked our lives ) to non-vitally wound them rather then kill them.
The war in Iraq, for what has happened, has had the lowest rate of casualties in history, by a very long shot.
Compare that to Russia's behavior in Chechnya ( the most barbaric war of our time ) where both sides are slitting eachothers throats.
Don't get me wrong, Russia has some VERY smart and intelligent people, undoubtedly as smart as Americans, as they prove time and again, and America also has an extreme number of idiots and uneducated people but Americans IN GENERAL are much more knowledgeable and aware of world events AND HISTORY then any other country.

Dear 44Cannon, don't make quotes of things I wrote about half a year ago. Anyhow, I believe you are overreacting. Although now I don't think it was a very good comment for me to make, I must say that you said some rather strange stuff.

I don't know where you're getting this 30% of Americans having been to 5-10 countries thing. Perhaps you live among a very well-traveled group of Americans, but I'd like to see actual statistics for this. I was born and raised in the United States and as such I do know a bit about the average American. Most everybody around here has been to only one other country(that being Mexico, although I don't really think a night of partying in Juarez should count as an experience of a foreign country). About living among dozens of cultures, isn't that number just a little high?

About me thinking America doesn't care about other countries, please quote where I said that. I think you are getting a tad defensive without good reason.

Fox News? Let's...eheh. No comment.

About Chechnya, I'm in no position to judge any side, but you must realize the situation is a little bit different there.

I also watched on Fox News, a live report from a journalist who was running the camera in the middle of a fierce firefight as an American medic patched up a wounded Iraqi soldier while bullets were flying, and this happened all throughout the war.

Yes, you saw a video on Fox News, of course it applies to the entire American military and it confirms your belief this happened throughout the war. I saw several pictures of rather nasty things happening in one of the Baghdad prisons, but of course, those are only isolated incidents and they don't apply to the entire American military. Right?

Americans IN GENERAL are much more knowledgeable and aware of world events AND HISTORY then any other country.

Everything I have seen thus far has led me to think otherwise.

44Cannon, I don't know you, and you seem to be a very pleasant fellow, but as you know, I dislike forum arguments. You can think whatever you'd like, but it'd be quite something to convince me to think the same way.

Well, at least we're shaking hands for once. I've been around the country, and spent time with the US Army at Ft. Hood and have worked with ALLOT of different classes of people, and lived around them. A very large portion of them have been all over the world, usually through military travel or business.
If you go to Bad areas, weather the inner city or backwoods, you will find allot of people who have never left their county, much less the country, but in most other places,you will find the very opposate.
I am well aware of our militarys behavior.
Haterid towards Americans is a matter of getting it out of the way before it comes up. Nothing more.

Yes, you saw a video on Fox News, of course it applies to the entire American military and it confirms your belief this happened throughout the war.

I never said that, although I did monitor the war on both Fox News and CNN. I also work with a guy who puts weapons on the battle field and have friends who are snipers and medics in the Military, and also have a cousin who was in the Navy at the time. I also have friends who's kids are stationed their. I know about bad behavior our military has done and does that you'll never know about, as well as good. By all accounts, our military is behaving incredibly well throughout this war. Yes, their have been some problems, and some things get out of hand, but far less then any other war we've fought, or the Europeans for that matter.

I saw several pictures of rather nasty things happening in one of the Baghdad prisons, but of course, those are only isolated incidents and they don't apply to the entire American military. Right?

Their is a smearing campaign by the liberal media, which has made a highlight out of that isolated incident. Fox News and CNN are neutral stations, yet, they haven't been able to find that much bad behavior by US troops, and they themselves have been as quick as anyone to rush in and catch the story when something like that happens.
Either way, I do appreciate your effort to shake hands on these issues and discuss them like civilized people for a change, and I thank you and respect you for that.

44Canon, you're a rather agreeable guy indeed, thank you too for being civil about it. About military people having been all over the world, I must agree. I live in a southwestern New Mexican town, though, so we don't have that many well-traveled people here About hatred towards Americans, I've gotten to know many people from foreign countries who have a positive, or at least neutral feeling towards the US.

About the video you linked me to, I'm in a fairly good mood right now, so I don't want to see something revolting. Am I right in guessing it's that recent video of the kidnapped American being executed?

The problem is that 'they' hate AMERICANS in general. But we don't respond the same way. When I first watched those videos, I regretfully, wished to gut the first Muslim I saw in response. Thankfully I calmed myself rather quickly. Extremists hate AMERICANS, despite the fact that these civilians have done NOTHING to them, nor does America attack civilians.

About hatred towards Americans, I've gotten to know many people from foreign countries who have a positive, or at least neutral feeling towards the US.

Their are pleanty of both.

It's my five penny:

1Ls = 0.65 EUR = 0.53 $ = 0.98 ?

1l petrol = 0.49 Ls
1l diesel fuel = 0.43 Ls
car insuranse for a year = about 50 Ls

house keeping (cold water, hot water and heating are included)= 30 Ls (summer) - 50 Ls (winter)
1kW energy = 0.045 Ls

lunch (soup, meat, potato, coffee) = 1.5 Ls

Originally Posted by 44 Canon

Their is a smearing campaign by the liberal media, which has made a highlight out of that isolated incident. Fox News and CNN are neutral stations, yet, they haven't been able to find that much bad behavior by US troops, and they themselves have been as quick as anyone to rush in and catch the story when something like that happens.
Either way, I do appreciate your effort to shake hands on these issues and discuss them like civilized people for a change, and I thank you and respect you for that.

Fox News is a neutral station?

Wow, you really believe that? We must get a different FoxNews here then, because the only one I have ever seen is the most twisted, biased, one-sided, tub-thumping, flag-waving, ideology-soaked propganda machine this side of Pyong Yang.

You were joking, weren't you?

Perhaps he meant it had a pH of 7?