YouTube - 13 апреля. День траура в Минске
Мои соболезнования всем пострадавшим.
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YouTube - 13 апреля. День траура в Минске
Мои соболезнования всем пострадавшим.
Western special services, probably American or British. They want to punish Belarus for the alliance with Russia.Quote:
Who do you think are the likely culprits for the Minsk metro bomb?
Ну шо на это можно сказать? Только одно: глухо как в танке.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
Да, и отношения между Белоруссией и Россией сразу повредились.
Wow, go on dude! You're just a unique kind of person! I always look forward to seeing your posts on such subjects!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
( I usually add smilies in such posts, but here it's actually not funny, people were killed after all... )
Вспоминается Доренко: "Казалось бы, при чём здесь Лужков..."
Хоть кто-нибудь из капи принес соболезнования белорусам?
Телекомпания НТВ. Официальный сайт | Новости НТВ | Адвокаты Санникова обжалуют приговор
"...приговор он давно подписал себе сам, когда решил баллотироваться в президенты. Если ты решился изменить жизнь нашего народа, изменить жизнь нашей страны, значит, тебе прямая дорога в тюрьму."
Жаль...
He just ran for president... what a terrible crime... =(((Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Сейчас новость прочитал.
Ажиотаж в Белоруссии: жители сметают продукты с прилавков
Всю прошедшую неделю многие жители республики не столько работали, сколько метались по магазинам в поисках чего бы еще купить. Они покупали все, что еще не успело подорожать или подорожало, но пока не очень сильно. Под ажиотажный спрос попали соль, уксус и макароны. Десятками бутылок закупались спиртные напитки, моющие средства, пустели отделы с норковыми шубами. Дефицитным товаром стали холодильники, стиральные машины, пылесосы, современные телевизоры, утюги, электрочайники, мебель и украшения из золота.
бла-бла-бла http://news.mail.ru/politics/5956968/?frommail=1
Hanna, can you buy anything to eat?:mosking:
Yeah, definitely - there is plenty... See my travel blog.Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Actually, basically everything that's being written about Belarus in the English speaking press is a load of tosh.
It's just not true. This is not a dictatorship or an "outpost of tyranny", "axis of evil" or anything of the sort. Nobody looks or behaves like they are oppressed or scared of the police or state or anything else. I've met several people who critisized the government, and several who praised it. I think it's unfair on the people of Belarus to belittle their political choices and to impose sanctions which no doubt impact only regular people, not the leadership anyway. The politics of Belarus is the Belarussians problem, and nobody else's.
It is not communist or even very socialist, and it's not very much like the USSR apart from some legacy stuff. It has a unique character though, which I am trying to explain in my travel blog. It's well worth a visit because of this unique character and also because it's simply a very interesting, pleasant and charming country in lots of different ways. People are great. The most annoying thing is that there is a lot of bureacracy.
Whether the democracy is up to closer scrutiny or not, I couldn't really say - there probably is merit to some of the criticism.
But frankly I think that the majority DOES support the current leadership and they have done a very good job in lots of areas, so it's not surprising. Perhaps Belarus could invite the EU to actually organise the election next time, according to the existing budget for elections.
I don't think Eastern Europeans in general, and particularly people in the ex USSR are massively hung up about "democracy" according to the Western model. I think they are more interested in a government that produces results - such as stability, prosperity and good living conditions - perhaps they are prepared to pay a small price in marginally less political freedom for that.
If the current .by leadership mess up badly enough, then the people will probably eventually kick them out. There is plenty of external support for the opposition, I just don't think there is a critical mass of people inside of Belarus supporting the opposition right now. But if the devaluation problem gets any worse, that might change. I think the people in Minsk are generally more pro West than the rest of the country.
In the building where I am staying, somebody has put up an EU sticker with the word "Belarus" inside the stars, similar to the stickers for EU member states. Someone else has then tried to erase the word Belarus from the sticker.
But yeah, everything you need is available - though NOT to the very specialised level you'd get in a big city Western Europe, and not top-end stuff. But that's nothing special for Belarus though, it's the same in lots of countries. There is no visible crime at all, couldn't be safer.... No beggars, super-clean everywhere, the majority of buildings have been recently renovated or are well maintained. People are nice, friendly and helpful and you can feel completely safe.
Надеюсь, Минск не был так уничтожен, как Москва (в смысле исторического облика).
http://reibert.info/forum/attachment...8&d=1162837005
1942 год, немецкая кинохроника.
Maybe some of these boys have been hard at work trying to shape opinions....Another precious waste of tax payers' money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media | Technology | The Guardian
The need to protect the internet from 'astroturfing' grows ever more urgent | George Monbiot | Environment | guardian.co.uk
Washington's Blog
I think that maybe some of them have been on the MR forums too.
and in the Russian press too, at least that's what Lukashenko thinks - "Most of hysteria is produced by the Russian mass media."Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Telegraf.by | Lukashenko Ordered to Close Foreign Media in Belarus
Wow, I had no idea that was happening! How super-creepy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph
Please read the Guardian article at the very least.
And who's doing it, if not the US military and multinational corporation.
It's propaganda at the creepiest possible level.....
Can you really get a bot to act like a human and participate in debates?
Apparently these "fake" users have a full online "persona" with email address, facebook account, and unique IP address in the city they are supposed to be living in.
Occassionally the odd person on this forum appears so truly brainwashed that it's hard to believe they are for real. Unfortunately I think they are...
And following from the BBC article that Seraph links to: In my childhood, the US carried out some psy-ops in Sweden. Basically they did things that upset the public, and made out that it was being done by the USSR, to make people scared of the USSR. It gradually started working. However in the early 00s it was revealed, using modern science, that these things were done by the US, and not the USSR. I just couldn't believe it, but there the evidence was completely clear. It's just absolutely disgusting to be subjected to such manipulation.
Translation: The bullshit lies and propaganda that we spread in faraway countries to suit our purposes must be prevented from being picked up by our own national media.Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC
This makes me wonder if I can trust ANYTHING I read in any media. If even bloggers and people can be faked, not to mention the news you get in newspapers and on TV because they are simply too outrageous.
What, is that Minsk? Awful!Quote:
Originally Posted by BappaBa
I think it's really sweet how Minsk has been rebuilt to be a truly elegant city...
I mean, most of the public buildings are very impressive. There are parks everywhere and the domestic houses in central Minsk are very pleasant.
Everything fits together, in harmony.
I guess city planners in the USSR got together and said "let's rebuild Minsk for these poor people, and make it really nice".
It's touching in a way.
If you look at British or German cities that were destroyed in the war, they are always EXTREMELY ugly - cheap 1950s houses, just thrown together with no esthetics. In Minsk, it's been carefully planned to look good.
Well, let's think. The authorities of the country you're now in? I wouldn't be any surprised...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
It gets worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Washington's Blog
Hardly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Belarus is incredibly bad at promoting itself abroad, and tweaking public opinion in other countries. Its attempts at promoting its views seem almost naive, and in addition the Belarussian government is not playing the diplomatic game with the EU at all; it seems they've given up
The tourist information available is also not slick, enough said about all this.
Of course, in MY view, all of that makes the country more likeable.
But if you look at Belarus from a Western/Anglosaxon market driven perspective, what they need is:
1) A kickass good PR agency
2) A top class spin doctor
3) SEO optimization of Belarus based sites
4) If you are going to be a bit black-hat, then a team of top class hackers..
and much, much more.
It's evident that a lot of what they are doing in terms of politics and promoting the country (tourism) is just a modern-day extension of what the USSR did in those areas. This model of tourism and PR is outdated today, at least if you look at the matter from a "Western" perspective.
Compare the reality of Belarus: "There is nothing particularly sinister going on here, people are super nice and the country looks very well kept everywhere."
...with the myth about Belarus: "This is an oppressive dictatorship where everybody is super poor, there is corruption and everything is falling to pieces. "
The average European believes that the USA is a much better country than it really is, and that Belarus is a worse country than it really is.
So who has the better propaganda?!
Per the US state department's information page about Belarus (which is the FIRST hit on Google) it says that the KGB comes into peoples hotel rooms and check their bags when they are out... Police regularly stop people on the street and ask for documentation. People are sometimes prevented from leaving the country, including foreigners, the risk for theft is very high because people are so poor ETC, ETC! None of this has turned out to be true.
If you take the USA on the other hand, the sophistication with which it promotes itself and conducts these "psy-ops" operations is fantastic.
The way they manipulate public opinion not only in their own country but across the world is unmatched, ever!
You have commercials, films, papers, NGOs, Psy-ops and lately now internet operations to push their view.
Most people don't even realise that they're being affected by it.
And Eric C. After all this, I have an eerie feeling that I should perhaps show you a captcha....
And why are you saying "I wouldn't be ANY surprised" what kind of funny English is that? Several times you have written like a non-native speaker of English. What's up with that? Are you American as everyone assumes, or some other nationality?
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...956Hvdzpt8MxUw
Oh no! Did I just screw up the whole thing revealing myself? I'm a bad robot, I let down my creator! :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
It seems to me, Hanna, that in your childhood some commies seriously affected your view on many things. Do you know who else thinks of a person whose opinion is different as a bot, and equates "I assume" to "everyone assumes"?
Ok I think this comment proves that you are "probably" not a bot... we shall see ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
No "commies" affected my views in my childhood, the only thing that's different was that I wasn't under the influence of quite as much junk culture and conservative indoctrination as the average American, so therefore I developed the ability to view other cultures and countries from a neutral perspective instead of labelling them according to the latest "axis of evil" list.
And as an adult who's been truly ensnared in capitalism, in one of its global hubs for the last 10 years, I am am just letting off some steam by thinking of what a good world we would have if some of the ideals of socialism could be implemented. That is not exactly extreme, half of Europe has the same opinion. Being AGAINST imperalism and exploitation doesn't automatically make a person a "commie" there are many nuances on that scale.
How can you know that isn't true? Just because it hasn't happened to you? But I told you, exploring a country as a tourist doesn't give you a detail view on such things. I have a couple of friends there, and they all have been telling me since the middle of 1990s they live in a great country which happens to be so (no, it would be like sOOO) unlucky with its authorities. And when you hear anything bad about that country in mass media, is it so hard to think for a bit and realize it's all about the oppressive regime, not about the people and the country itself? I don't know what else to say, please WhiteKnight, bsod, whoever living there, tell us something on the issue... do you like everything about the way the things are done in your country? (I once asked something like that, but I guess that needs to be shown up once more...). And is everything that appears in the foreign media about situation in your country always completely wrong? What could you confirm and what would you call a lie or misinformation from what Hanna has written about the country (that had been taken from mass media)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
I saw loads of movies like that. I just wonder how those who support the way the economy is done there could explain why the people are trying to get rid of their local currency in whatever way they just can - buying up goods in stores, foreign currencies in banks, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by mishau_
Well I haven't seen any such scenes at all and I have been in the supermarket, the market place and shopping centres quite a fair bit.
I spoke with a really nice woman today when I was at Dududtki, a handicraft village.
She had been a chief economist there, but had retired (at age 55!!!) She gave me the VIP tour of the village, will write about that later.
But later we talked a bit about finances (she started it!!) and she said that her pension was 150 USD per month, but had got a new job despite being past pension age, which paid 800 USD per month. If I understood correctly, her rent was 80 USD per month. No luxury on that salary, but as long as you stay in Belarus and keep it basic, it should be possible to manage on that. She said she was disappointed at the currency devalution but she definitely did not want a revolution. She was actually a Russian, from somewhere in the Urals, but she is now a Belarussian citizen and she thought that Belarus is a better country to live in than Russia, based on her impressions from her annual trip to Russia to see family.
That is true, but the difference is, I have visited and you haven't. I think you should wait to jump to any conclusions. And remember that the people YOU speak with, are precisely the ones that are the most likely to be fed up with the current government. I.e. young well-educated people in Minsk. However they are not in the majority of the population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.