Thread: Elections in Belarus

Hanna, can you buy anything to eat?

Originally Posted by sperk

Hanna, can you buy anything to eat?

Yeah, definitely - there is plenty... See my travel blog.
Actually, basically everything that's being written about Belarus in the English speaking press is a load of tosh.
It's just not true. This is not a dictatorship or an "outpost of tyranny", "axis of evil" or anything of the sort. Nobody looks or behaves like they are oppressed or scared of the police or state or anything else. I've met several people who critisized the government, and several who praised it. I think it's unfair on the people of Belarus to belittle their political choices and to impose sanctions which no doubt impact only regular people, not the leadership anyway. The politics of Belarus is the Belarussians problem, and nobody else's.

It is not communist or even very socialist, and it's not very much like the USSR apart from some legacy stuff. It has a unique character though, which I am trying to explain in my travel blog. It's well worth a visit because of this unique character and also because it's simply a very interesting, pleasant and charming country in lots of different ways. People are great. The most annoying thing is that there is a lot of bureacracy.

Whether the democracy is up to closer scrutiny or not, I couldn't really say - there probably is merit to some of the criticism.
But frankly I think that the majority DOES support the current leadership and they have done a very good job in lots of areas, so it's not surprising. Perhaps Belarus could invite the EU to actually organise the election next time, according to the existing budget for elections.

I don't think Eastern Europeans in general, and particularly people in the ex USSR are massively hung up about "democracy" according to the Western model. I think they are more interested in a government that produces results - such as stability, prosperity and good living conditions - perhaps they are prepared to pay a small price in marginally less political freedom for that.

If the current .by leadership mess up badly enough, then the people will probably eventually kick them out. There is plenty of external support for the opposition, I just don't think there is a critical mass of people inside of Belarus supporting the opposition right now. But if the devaluation problem gets any worse, that might change. I think the people in Minsk are generally more pro West than the rest of the country.

In the building where I am staying, somebody has put up an EU sticker with the word "Belarus" inside the stars, similar to the stickers for EU member states. Someone else has then tried to erase the word Belarus from the sticker.

But yeah, everything you need is available - though NOT to the very specialised level you'd get in a big city Western Europe, and not top-end stuff. But that's nothing special for Belarus though, it's the same in lots of countries. There is no visible crime at all, couldn't be safer.... No beggars, super-clean everywhere, the majority of buildings have been recently renovated or are well maintained. People are nice, friendly and helpful and you can feel completely safe.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Actually, basically everything that's being written about Belarus in the English speaking press is a load of tosh.
It's just not true.

Maybe some of these boys have been hard at work trying to shape opinions....Another precious waste of tax payers' money.
Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media | Technology | The Guardian
The need to protect the internet from 'astroturfing' grows ever more urgent | George Monbiot | Environment | guardian.co.uk
Washington's Blog
I think that maybe some of them have been on the MR forums too.

Originally Posted by Seraph

Maybe some of these boys have been hard at work trying to shape opinions....
Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media | Technology | The Guardian
The need to protect the internet from 'astroturfing' grows ever more urgent | George Monbiot | Environment | guardian.co.uk
Washington's Blog
I think that maybe some of them have been on the MR forums too.

Wow, I had no idea that was happening! How super-creepy!
Please read the Guardian article at the very least.

And who's doing it, if not the US military and multinational corporation.
It's propaganda at the creepiest possible level.....

Can you really get a bot to act like a human and participate in debates?

Apparently these "fake" users have a full online "persona" with email address, facebook account, and unique IP address in the city they are supposed to be living in.

Occassionally the odd person on this forum appears so truly brainwashed that it's hard to believe they are for real. Unfortunately I think they are...

And following from the BBC article that Seraph links to: In my childhood, the US carried out some psy-ops in Sweden. Basically they did things that upset the public, and made out that it was being done by the USSR, to make people scared of the USSR. It gradually started working. However in the early 00s it was revealed, using modern science, that these things were done by the US, and not the USSR. I just couldn't believe it, but there the evidence was completely clear. It's just absolutely disgusting to be subjected to such manipulation.

Originally Posted by BBC

Perhaps the most startling aspect of the roadmap is its acknowledgement that information put out as part of the military's psychological operations, or Psyops, is finding its way onto the computer and television screens of ordinary Americans.
"Information intended for foreign audiences, including public diplomacy and Psyops, is increasingly consumed by our domestic audience," it reads.
"Psyops messages will often be replayed by the news media for much larger audiences, including the American public," it goes on.
The document's authors acknowledge that American news media should not unwittingly broadcast military propaganda. "Specific boundaries should be established," they write. But they don't seem to explain how.
"In this day and age it is impossible to prevent stories that are fed abroad as part of psychological operations propaganda from blowing back into the United States - even though they were directed abroad," says Kristin Adair of the National Security Archive.

Translation: The bullshit lies and propaganda that we spread in faraway countries to suit our purposes must be prevented from being picked up by our own national media.

This makes me wonder if I can trust ANYTHING I read in any media. If even bloggers and people can be faked, not to mention the news you get in newspapers and on TV because they are simply too outrageous.

Originally Posted by Hanna

And who's doing it, if not the US military and multinational corporation.

Well, let's think. The authorities of the country you're now in? I wouldn't be any surprised...

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Well, let's think. The authorities of the country you're now in? I wouldn't be any surprised...

Hardly!
Belarus is incredibly bad at promoting itself abroad, and tweaking public opinion in other countries. Its attempts at promoting its views seem almost naive, and in addition the Belarussian government is not playing the diplomatic game with the EU at all; it seems they've given up
The tourist information available is also not slick, enough said about all this.
Of course, in MY view, all of that makes the country more likeable.

But if you look at Belarus from a Western/Anglosaxon market driven perspective, what they need is:
1) A kickass good PR agency
2) A top class spin doctor
3) SEO optimization of Belarus based sites
4) If you are going to be a bit black-hat, then a team of top class hackers..

and much, much more.

It's evident that a lot of what they are doing in terms of politics and promoting the country (tourism) is just a modern-day extension of what the USSR did in those areas. This model of tourism and PR is outdated today, at least if you look at the matter from a "Western" perspective.

Compare the reality of Belarus: "There is nothing particularly sinister going on here, people are super nice and the country looks very well kept everywhere."
...with the myth about Belarus: "This is an oppressive dictatorship where everybody is super poor, there is corruption and everything is falling to pieces. "

The average European believes that the USA is a much better country than it really is, and that Belarus is a worse country than it really is.
So who has the better propaganda?!

Per the US state department's information page about Belarus (which is the FIRST hit on Google) it says that the KGB comes into peoples hotel rooms and check their bags when they are out... Police regularly stop people on the street and ask for documentation. People are sometimes prevented from leaving the country, including foreigners, the risk for theft is very high because people are so poor ETC, ETC! None of this has turned out to be true.

If you take the USA on the other hand, the sophistication with which it promotes itself and conducts these "psy-ops" operations is fantastic.
The way they manipulate public opinion not only in their own country but across the world is unmatched, ever!
You have commercials, films, papers, NGOs, Psy-ops and lately now internet operations to push their view.
Most people don't even realise that they're being affected by it.

And Eric C. After all this, I have an eerie feeling that I should perhaps show you a captcha....
And why are you saying "I wouldn't be ANY surprised" what kind of funny English is that? Several times you have written like a non-native speaker of English. What's up with that? Are you American as everyone assumes, or some other nationality?

Originally Posted by Hanna

And Eric C. After all this, I have an eerie feeling that I should perhaps show you a captcha....
And why are you saying "I wouldn't be ANY surprised" what kind of funny English is that? Several times you have written like a non-native speaker of English. What's up with that? Are you American as everyone assumes, or some other nationality?

Oh no! Did I just screw up the whole thing revealing myself? I'm a bad robot, I let down my creator!

It seems to me, Hanna, that in your childhood some commies seriously affected your view on many things. Do you know who else thinks of a person whose opinion is different as a bot, and equates "I assume" to "everyone assumes"?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Per the US state department's information page about Belarus (which is the FIRST hit on Google) it says that the KGB comes into peoples hotel rooms and check their bags when they are out... Police regularly stop people on the street and ask for documentation. People are sometimes prevented from leaving the country, including foreigners, the risk for theft is very high because people are so poor ETC, ETC! None of this has turned out to be true.

How can you know that isn't true? Just because it hasn't happened to you? But I told you, exploring a country as a tourist doesn't give you a detail view on such things. I have a couple of friends there, and they all have been telling me since the middle of 1990s they live in a great country which happens to be so (no, it would be like sOOO) unlucky with its authorities. And when you hear anything bad about that country in mass media, is it so hard to think for a bit and realize it's all about the oppressive regime, not about the people and the country itself? I don't know what else to say, please WhiteKnight, bsod, whoever living there, tell us something on the issue... do you like everything about the way the things are done in your country? (I once asked something like that, but I guess that needs to be shown up once more...). And is everything that appears in the foreign media about situation in your country always completely wrong? What could you confirm and what would you call a lie or misinformation from what Hanna has written about the country (that had been taken from mass media)?

Originally Posted by Hanna

Wow, I had no idea that was happening! How super-creepy!

It gets worse.
Washington's Blog

Originally Posted by Hanna

Actually, basically everything that's being written about Belarus in the English speaking press is a load of tosh.
It's just not true.

and in the Russian press too, at least that's what Lukashenko thinks - "Most of hysteria is produced by the Russian mass media."
Telegraf.by | Lukashenko Ordered to Close Foreign Media in Belarus