Thread: Elections in Belarus

Originally Posted by Crocodile

...However, that situation should not be officially titled the Free Education (TM) as the government gathers tremendous political dividends from that title while, as it turns out, requires their fee in just another way.

Exactly right.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The thing is that almost all some of the western universities provide a lot of scholarships to those who study well. So much so that in practice you only have to pay (partially) for your bachelor degree.

To a few nerds in a particular university, and not always completely covering their study costs.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

The master's and ph.d. are in fact free (and you're usually left with some extra money as well).

They already work. You forgot to tell about academicians, never mind.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

However, that situation should not be officially titled the Free Education (TM) as the government gathers tremendous political dividends from that title while, as it turns out, requires their fee in just another way.

The word "бесплатный" literally is "unpaid", if you passed the entering contest, worked off 2 years you don't pay. The higher education is not mandatory there.

Originally Posted by Romik

To a few nerds in a particular university, and not always completely covering their study costs.

They already work. You forgot to tell about academicians, never mind.

The word "бесплатный" literally is "unpaid", if you passed the entering contest, worked off 2 years you don't pay. The higher education is not mandatory there.

There are very few students in Belarus who want to pass their career assignment after the university. The majority is against but they have to.

It's quite possible to find a job after the university if you're not a looser. It's better to gain experience and earn money than to work like a slave almost for nothing, isn't it?
Career assignment in Belarus is a forced labour. It's not the same as in the USA.

You are the only person here who supports lukashenko's ideology concerning education. Don't forget that the topic is presidential elections in Belarus and not education (neither in Belarus nor in the USA).

And what is the problem? Find the job, and work there 2 years.

Originally Posted by belarusnews

There are very few students in Belarus who want to pass their career assignment after the university. The majority is against but they have to.

There are a lot of graduates in Russia having difficulties to find desired jobs. Situation can be: "no experience -> no job" - "no job -> no experience".

Originally Posted by belarusnews

It's quite possible to find a job after the university if you're not a looser. It's better to gain experience and earn money than to work like a slave almost for nothing, isn't it?
Career assignment in Belarus is a forced labour.

To work like a slave almost for nothing people have for example in Russian army. You was not forced to take on the state-financed higher education.

Originally Posted by belarusnews

You are the only person here who supports lukashenko's ideology concerning education.

Why:

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Indeed, it might make sense for the government to pay for your education if you agree to take on the government job for two years or something like that.

He seems just was discontented with some terminology.

Originally Posted by Romik

There are a lot of graduates in Russia having difficulties to find desired jobs. Situation can be: "no experience -> no job" - "no job -> no experience".

To work like a slave almost for nothing people have for example in Russian army. You was not forced to take on the state-financed higher education.

Why:

He seems just was discontented with some terminology.

I think it's better to remember the topic. Those who want to discuss education can create their own thread...
There is no point of discussing educational problems in Belarus now.

Look what's happening: massive arrests, pursuit of journalists, media war...The outcome of the elections in Belarus and that's only the beginning.

Originally Posted by belarusnews

Look what's happening: massive arrests, pursuit of journalists, media war...The outcome of the elections in Belarus and that's only the beginning.

Btw, how many people who were then at the square have already been detained? I've heard of approximately 1,000, and I've also heard that the authorities are going to detain each single person who showed up near that square in the evening of 12/19/2010... That's as terrible as ridiculous and absolutely awful...

Originally Posted by Romik

To a few nerds in a particular university, and not always completely covering their study costs.

I think I mentioned earlier it's the pass for those who study well. It seems belarusnews was the one who "entered the University with better grades than the others". If you want to call him a nerd it's your right I guess, but had he studied in a western university he would have gotten a better attention "than the others" depending on his grades. Those, who graduate well and start their masters (which aren't just the typical nerds, but that is more or less what makes the difference between a university degree (институтское образование) and a college degree (образование техникума). Those who start their master's are typically assigned a nominal job (like grading a course homeworks) which usually takes two-three hours a week and completely covers for their tuition fee. Very reasonable, I guess, comparing to a two-year low-paid job. In addition, they might be assigned the TA's job which takes more effort, but pays well. The process is started by taking a student load from a bank on a reasonable terms. The scolarships irregularly contribute something in between. As I said, in the end, once the master's is complete, a good student is left with an ultimately free high education, good grades, and a relatively brighter future. All that with not a minor hint to a communist ideology to say the least. That was my entire point. A free/unpaid/no money/no fee/etc. (whatever term you like the best, it doesn't really change a matter of things).

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Those, who graduate well and start their masters (which aren't just the typical nerds, but that is more or less what makes the difference between a university degree (институтское образование) and a college degree (образование техникума).

You seems muddle some things. Before masters - bachelors is not like "образование техникума". It does not make the difference that way.
"college degree" - what you understand upon it? As I know there are different colleges out there - ones that give higher education and community ones that give professional education.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Btw, how many people who were then at the square have already been detained? I've heard of approximately 1,000, and I've also heard that the authorities are going to detain each single person who showed up near that square in the evening of 12/19/2010... That's as terrible as ridiculous and absolutely awful...

Here you can see the list of the detained people

I think a lot more than 1000 people were detained. There were actually no space for the detained people in belarusian prisons.

Most of them were released on December 29, 2010. But their lives are broken, I think. They'll have to pay a large fine and won't find a good job in the country.

Belarusian television revealed the names of the provocateurs who broke the doors of the Government Building during the protests following the presidential election

Originally Posted by Romik

You seems muddle some things. Before masters - bachelors is not like "образование техникума". It does not make the difference that way.
"college degree" - what you understand upon it? As I know there are different colleges out there - ones that give higher education and community ones that give professional education.

According to Знак о получении среднего профессионального образования (технического техникума) (з373) college and техникум are very close in a kind of education they provide. It's 3-4 years of a post-high-school kind of education that is named a bachelor degree. Среднее [специальное] образование. No muddling. That kind of education is not free in the western countries for an average student. There are scholarships which help, but they do not cover for the entire tuition fee. The master's university degree is equivalent to высшее образование (5-6 years of the university) and is de facto free for all the full-time master's students (yes, you have to pay for it by grading the other students' assignments working and hour or two a week, but I think that practically means free; haven't heard anyone complaining). Also, the university provides additional jobs (be it the teaching or the research) to almost all full-time master's students. That job is usually not very time-demanding and is very useful to the students, so it's just a kind of another course the students have to take. That helps to completely pay off the student loan the students had to take once they started their first year of bachelor. I call that a practically free high education for those who study well. The communist ideology on the other hand postulates the planned economy which includes the planned number of the specialists every year. Those students do not pay for their education since everything belongs to the state. Upon the graduation those students can only take the government's job and can only accept the rate established by the government. Be it a 120р. or $200 or $5000. That money can only buy the personal property (like fifty pairs of gloves, for example). Not a private property. The places to live are also distributed by the government the way they see fit. So, the kind of education you earned would probably correlate with a kind of job you're doing but much less with the quality of life you enjoy. That is a communist ideology and its relationship with the [free] education. Your education belongs to the state the same way anything else does. The education is free, but it's not yours. No muddling.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

According to Знак о получении среднего профессионального образования (технического техникума) (з373) college and техникум are very close in a kind of education they provide. It's 3-4 years of a post-high-school kind of education that is named a bachelor degree. Среднее [специальное] образование. No muddling. That kind of education is not free in the western countries for an average student. There are scholarships which help, but they do not cover for the entire tuition fee. The master's university degree is equivalent to высшее образование (5-6 years of the university) and is de facto free for all the full-time master's students (yes, you have to pay for it by grading the other students' assignments working and hour or two a week, but I think that practically means free; haven't heard anyone complaining). Also, the university provides additional jobs (be it the teaching or the research) to almost all full-time master's students. That job is usually not very time-demanding and is very useful to the students, so it's just a kind of another course the students have to take. That helps to completely pay off the student loan the students had to take once they started their first year of bachelor. I call that a practically free high education for those who study well. The communist ideology on the other hand postulates the planned economy which includes the planned number of the specialists every year. Those students do not pay for their education since everything belongs to the state. Upon the graduation those students can only take the government's job and can only accept the rate established by the government. Be it a 120р. or $200 or $5000. That money can only buy the personal property (like fifty pairs of gloves, for example). Not a private property. The places to live are also distributed by the government the way they see fit. So, the kind of education you earned would probably correlate with a kind of job you're doing but much less with the quality of life you enjoy. That is a communist ideology and its relationship with the [free] education. Your education belongs to the state the same way anything else does. The education is free, but it's not yours. No muddling.

I'll provide some citations:

Higher education in the United States and Canada specifically refers to post-secondary institutions that offer Associate's degrees, Bachelor's degrees, Master's degrees, Education Specialist (Ed.S.) degrees or Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) degrees, or their equivalents, and also higher professional degrees in areas such as medicine, dentistry, the law, optometry, etc.

In the United States and Ireland, "college" and "university" are loosely interchangeable

Бакалавриат в России — первый уровень высшего образования, который является базовым и длится 4 года.

Диплом «бакалавра» дает выпускнику право при трудоустройстве занимать те должности, которые предусматривают наличие высшего образования в соответствии с их квалификационными требованиями.

Originally Posted by Romik

I'll provide some citations:

I will too:

Коммунизм - есть Советская власть плюс электрификация всей страны.

belarusnews, how many years have you studied after the high school?

Belarus Accuses Poland, Germany of Takeover Plot | HeraldTribune.com

Капитализм - колбаса без мяса.

Originally Posted by Romik

Капитализм - колбаса без мяса.

There is a much better quote:

Одним бублик, другим - дырку от бублика. Это и есть демократическая республика.

I wonder how what you said about the meat and the sausage fits into our previous discussion. The same way as your previous quotes?

Originally Posted by Basil77

Belarus Accuses Poland, Germany of Takeover Plot | HeraldTribune.com

No, it obviously was the US again. This time though the US was successful enough to make it seem like Poland and Germany contemplated the takeover. Obviously.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

I wonder how what you said about the meat and the sausage fits into our previous discussion. The same way as your previous quotes?

Do you think my quotes were not enough to your "no muddling"? At all do you like sausage in Canada?