Thread: Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia

Originally Posted by Hanna

Apparently Obama is cancelling his meeting with Putin over this, and going to....... Sweden.......... instead, during the same period.


I'd much rather he was barred from entry. Or why not arrest him for war crimes against humanity?
The Africans who booed him in South Africa had the right idea.
But no doubt the King will wine, dine and attempt to dazzle him.

Hanna, without judging your argument either way, the 'Africans in South Africa' booed him for different reasons. They do not care much about Snowden / NSA etc. A fairly large section of the population in South Africa simply dislikes the USA for its perceived bullying and double standards around the globe - this has historical roots and Obama would have been booed anyway - NSA/Snowden/Prism or not.

Apparently there is now a (low resolution) "Edward Snowden" computer game. A commenter in The Guardian said:

James Clapper has been playing it all week.

He's really good at it, but still no nearer catching Snowden.
He finished the US level by collecting 98,000,000,000 phone calls and emails.
He finished the Hong Kong level by accidently mis-spelling Snowden' name.
He finished the European level by accidently stopping the wrong plane.
He finished the South American level by managing to piss off almost everyone, everywhere south of Mexico.
He's currently stuck in the Russian level. He's tried threatening, begging, bribing, calling off summits, but he just can't get past the level boss - Putin.

Originally Posted by eisenherz

Hanna, without judging your argument either way, the 'Africans in South Africa' booed him for different reasons. They do not care much about Snowden / NSA etc. A fairly large section of the population in South Africa simply dislikes the USA for its perceived bullying and double standards around the globe - this has historical roots and Obama would have been booed anyway - NSA/Snowden/Prism or not.

No, I realise that it had nothing to do with the NSA and that South Africans from all types of backgrounds have varying reasons to be fed up or disillusioned with the USA. Nice to see someone from that part of the world in the forum.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/op...utin.html?_r=0

'Snowden is problem for both US & Russia' (close captured)

With Steven Cohen

Hope Snowden is enjoying Russia. He is definitely in my thoughts and I will read his book the second its out.

Guardian says Britain made it destroy Snowden material | Reuters

From this article:

Rusbridger said the destruction of the computer material was "pointless" as there were other copies of what was lost, and it would not stop the Guardian from pursuing Snowden stories.

"We will continue to do patient, painstaking reporting on the Snowden documents. We just won't do it in London," he said.

A British source with knowledge of the security services said GCHQ had no powers to seize material from the Guardian, but could have accused the paper of possessing stolen materials and demanded they be destroyed.

1) Меня удивила реакция наших правозащитников, когда они сказали, что Сноудену нужно дать убежище. Они же всегда действуют в интересах США - подумал я. Почему же сейчас они против интересов США? А потом подумал, что те, кто им платит, заинтересован поставить Обаму (и Россию) в сложное положение.
2) Те же подозрения у меня насчёт Китая. Они выслали Сноудена не куда-нибудь, а к нам.

Originally Posted by Hanna

why can't Russia simply help Snowden get away, behind the scenes? They could have said he got away... and didn't know where he was.

Кто же нам поверит? Этот вариант наивен. Ни один пассажир не может просто так перемещаться через границу, а программисту Сноудену как-то удалось. Хе-хе.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Why couldn't Russia offer asylum with no strings attached?

Могли бы помочь без всяких условий, если бы это был наш агент. Но тут просто частное лицо. Помогаем ему чисто из гуманитарных соображений, но и свою страну при этом не нужно подставлять под удар. Поэтому условия и политические реверансы. Тоже из гуманитарных соображений.

Помогаем ему чисто из гуманитарных соображений

Did you read that British police at Heathrow (main airport in London) stopped the Brazilian (gay) partner of Greenwald, the British journalist who had been liasing with Snowden.

Greenwald (wisely) lives in Brazil. The Brazilian guy was just passing the UK in transit. However, they seized his laptop, memory sticks and lots of other electronic stuff, and haven't given it back.

They held him for 9 hours using a terrorism clause, then released him. He is understandably furious, since he wasn't even involved in Greenwald's journalism.

Originally Posted by Юрка

1) Меня удивила реакция наших правозащитников, когда они сказали, что Сноудену нужно дать убежище. Они же всегда действуют в интересах США - подумал я. Почему же сейчас они против интересов США? А потом подумал, что те, кто им платит, заинтересован поставить Обаму (и Россию) в сложное положение.
2) Те же подозрения у меня насчёт Китая. Они выслали Сноудена не куда-нибудь, а к нам.

I am not against Obama. In fact I voted for Obama twice. But that does not mean I am in lockstep with everything he does.

Americans are divided in their opinion about Snowden. Some people call him a traitor. Others call him a hero. A lot of Obama supporters hate Snowden because, like people everywhere, they can not seem to separate the issues.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Did you read that British police at Heathrow (main airport in London) stopped the Brazilian (gay) partner of Greenwald, the British journalist who had been liasing with Snowden.

Greenwald (wisely) lives in Brazil. The Brazilian guy was just passing the UK in transit. However, they seized his laptop, memory sticks and lots of other electronic stuff, and haven't given it back.

They held him for 9 hours using a terrorism clause, then released him. He is understandably furious, since he wasn't even involved in Greenwald's journalism.

Yes, I read about it. That was the article I posted above!

Originally Posted by Deborski

Yes, I read about it. That was the article I posted above!

Уф, как всё же мне повезло, что я не поехал на олимпиаду в Лондон

А вообще, грустно всё это...

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Уф, как всё же мне повезло, что я не поехал на олимпиаду в Лондон

А вообще, грустно всё это...

I've stated it on other threads and I'll state it again. I never supported a boycott of the Sochi Games.

We need to boycott Olympics in Europe and the US otherwise if you'd go there and you will be called homophobe. Everybody hates Russians there
будем все ветки красить в голубой цвет?

Да нет, тут что-то другое. Если в Лондоне людей в мусор превращают, то уж лучше дома сидеть.

(Deleted. L.)


Snowden stayed at Russian Consulate while in Hong Kong, report says - The Washington Post

Putin already knew about it and was lying - as usual. Not only that, but, I stated he was 'an opportunist.' That is proven correct, also. So, ppl saying 'yay for Putin' or crediting him with anything are shown to be fools. Putin supporters are fools, whether they are Americans or Russians. Governments always lie but so many people just don't realize it, I guess.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Americans are divided in their opinion about Snowden. Some people call him a traitor. Others call him a hero.

Да, я видел интервью обычных граждан США на этот счёт. Сам я не считаю его предателем своей страны. Возможно, он предал своё ведомство, но это проблемы самого ведомства.
Я считаю его идеалистом. Я, быть может, даже отговаривал бы его от такого поступка, чтобы он не ломал себе жизнь. Но с другой стороны, возможно, он внёс свой вклад в то, чтобы этот мир стал лучше. Надеюсь, ему будет уютно в Москве (или под Москвой). Освоит язык, потом книгу напишет. Почитаем. Только ему придётся жёстко ограничивать себя в перемещениях, чтобы не выдать своё место. Иначе американцы запихнут в машину, доставят в посольство и всё. Оттуда нам его не достать.

By now, I am sure most of you have heard that Bradley Manning has changed his name to Chelsea Manning and wants to be sent to a prison for women instead of a prison for men. I do not claim to understand why anyone wants to change their sexual identity, but I support their right to do that if they want. But I have to say, it does not seem like a very wise choice for Bradley/Chelsea to make right now... he/she could end up in the all-male prison where he/she will be beaten and raped. Or, maybe he/she will end up in a women's prison - in which case, he/she may be a genius. I have no idea.

Manning lawyer gives more details on decision to become 'Chelsea' - U.S. News

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Why Edward Snowden Is a Hero : The New Yorker

No spying?!? LOL! I've read stuff from you on here before. I don't care if Baldy agrees with you. I don't have time to argue.

I'm glad that there's a lot of Americans who are against this - it shows how much they're hypocrites and proves I'm right about how the sheep tolerate anything their Government does.

Well -- Americans may have a lot of media to choose from, but 95% and the most accessible media is giving the "mainstream", gov't supported line.
The majority of people will eventually fall for it.

So although they may have initially been shocked at the relevations, the campaign immediately started to:

1) Justify the NSA spying "It's protection against evil terrrorists who HATE FREEDOM and the American way of life... and pedophiles, do you support them....?"

2) Focus on the person of Edward Snowden, rather than the issue: I.e. "He abandoned his girlfriend who is good-looking and a dancer!" "He said XYZ in an IT forum 5 years ago", "He is just after the attention", "He's got mental health issues"..... I.e. blackpainting and general distraction from the actual topic.

3) Insinuating that "Putin is involved", "Russia is playing games and needs to be taught a lesson..." and generally using their ex arch enemy's completely incidental involvement as a distraction from the real topic.


So after a month of this, most people are duly distracted by the above point, concerned about appearing un-patriotic...

It's also very easy to hoodwink non-technical people on this technical topic. Making it sound less serious that it actually is.
The actual technology behind it, and the potential implication of this amount of spying is simply not within most people's grasp, from a technical perspective.

That's why this is so HUGE in the IT world where I work. Most people DO understand how truly sinister it is, and the absolutely mind-blowing implications. But for non-technical people it's understandable that it is hard to actually understand the problem.

They are building huge data centres inside mountains for this, for goodness sake. The scope is incomprehensible. They want ALL data, from EVERYONE.
It's a combination of the worst spying thriller and the most spooky dystopian sci-fi you can imagine.
Right now they can't decrypt and cross reference everything. But give it a few years, and they'll be able to use this data to pull out a full profile on anyone. Everything from their shopping habits, social life to political views.... Stasi (to mention this classic example of a spying org) couldn't have dreamt of this and they might actually have had ethical reservations about it... But not so in the USA!


Propaganda at its best, using "free" press... Most people don't see it happening.

Snowden did Americans a big, big favour at a huge price to himself, but sadly most Americans (just as he fears) are not in a position to appreciate it. Only somebody who seeks out alternative news sources and has the technical background to follow it, will be able to see the full picture.