Thread: Economic Sanctions against Russia and Russia’s Retaliatory Trade Measures

Originally Posted by Eric C.

There used to be a guy from Sweden on this forum, Fester, he was okay. I mean, I've always had a lot of respect for the Swedes as a nation, and he wasn't an exception. But there's one more person from that country on this forum, that continuously tries to change my mind about that nation with her every post on any political thread. But she's not doing a good job. =))

Yes, and I think there is another one but I think he's young, a student? What I found, is that most Swedes are 'leftys' or they are 'far-left' so the thing about being cautious or paranoid about what Russia is doing is just a distratction to their inevitable problems their government is doing. If you are worried about something else, you'll focus less attention on what is really serious. Sweden is under America's/Israel (sorry, mate ) hegemony so they don't have to fear Russia whatsoever in that regard. The plane events are just geopolitical stunts as long as no one makes any fatal mistakes. It's still childish and foolish but hey, governments are always doing stupid, foolish things, even to make a PR stunt.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Who cares about Sweden?

I can think of at least 7 epic reasons to care about Sweden... massively!

1. In Flames
2. Amon Amarth
3. Dead by April
4. Meshuggah
5. Sonic Syndicate
6. Opeth
7. Nightrage

Any questions? Swedish metal pwns... just saying.

Nothing yet about the retaliatory sanctions... in response to the new sanctions against Crimea, Russia. Obama said he wouldn't issue any new sanctions against Russia. But the next day... Never listen to a liar.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I can think of at least 7 epic reasons to care about Sweden... massively!

1. In Flames
2. Amon Amarth
3. Dead by April
4. Meshuggah
5. Sonic Syndicate
6. Opeth
7. Nightrage

Any questions? Swedish metal pwns... just saying..

Yeah, exactly! Btw, my favorite ones of those are In Flames & Sonic Syndicate. And btw, this has been one of the main reasons I have so much respect for that country, that the Swedish metal bands pwn ! =))

I just hope that lefties and commies from that country are rather an exception than a regular rule. (Вытерто. Л.)

Sorry if I am boring anyone with this. I can only talk about what I know, and I am not the Russia expert here, the Russians are....

Personally I am interested in the view that people have of my country abroad, and I would have thought that that goes for people of other nationalities too.

Yeah that video (heard of it) would be funny if this wasn't taken completely seriously.
How can anyone believe this kind of talk, when it's so completely ludicrous.
I feel like I'm in North Korea or something, with the level of propaganda going on.

There is a kind of a national debating forum for Sweden and they had to create a separate section just for crazy stuff about Russia. People are totally obsessed with this and have lost all sense of perspective.
https://www.flashback.org/f484
It just goes to show what a well orchestrated media campaign can achieve.

I think there is plenty legitimate criticism against Russia that could be discussed - it's not a perfect country, but I think the odds of Russia invading Sweden is about as likely as Martians landing on my balcony tomorrow.

A few days ago it was discovered that somebody put up a fake mobile phone transmitter in the parliament quarters of town, so that all politicians telephones could be tapped. Immediately everybody is convinced it's Russia doing this. Despite the fact that the country that the USA is the country with a proven recent history of doing this... Not saying that Russia couldn't have done it, but it could be any other country, a newspaper looking for scoops or whatever. Why point a finger until there is proof?

It's actually scary to live in a situation where there is no respect for logic and truth as propaganda is dished out and people around you just lap it up. Normally the agitation or whatever you want to call it, is about "politically correct" causes, like anti-racism, homosexual rights, femininsm or whatever. In my childhood it was anti-imperialism. Annoying, but at least they mean well; they believe these are positive causes to make people believe in.

But now there is agitation about an actual enemy, a whole nation that is just pointed out as the evil empire from which nothing good can come. Despite there being no realistic proof or threat! It's gone too far! This is the tactics of aggressive dictatorships!! It's hard to accept that it's going on under my nose.
I am getting Nazi Germany vibes from this level of hysteria against another country.

I think the paranoia is worse regarding this, even than in Poland... Maybe not the Baltic States, but at least they have some kind of legitimate reason and history for being Russophobes. We don't. And when it comes to Poles I think they know Russia a bit better than most Swedes do, who are quite prone to believe any proposterous lie about Russia, just because they have no direct experience themselves.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Yeah that video (heard of it) would be funny if this wasn't taken completely seriously.

It's ok. It's a new game of the world: to be afraid of Russia. Who is afraid more will get some "made in USA cookies"™
I personally see nothing wrong if Swedes would want to brush up their military defense capabilities.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Well I bought some Russian shares for my pension fund on Monday.
No doubt they will be back to previous levels within 1-2 years maximum, so for me, this is a good deal.
My only worry about this is that Russian companies de-list from the London Stock Exchange.
There wasn't a lot to choose from so I bought Sistema, Gazprom, VBT bank and Magnit.

Blimey! This was Monday. Sistema shares went up by 150% since then. Magnit with 9%. I made £3500 for my pension fund in 4 days, just from buying random Russian shares. Спасибо вам, Владимир Владимирович! I got an email from the account manager warning me about insider trading. LOL! I dont know anything, just need to keep the money in that fund invested and I never have any clue what to buy. My strategy is BRICs, technology and energy.
Or should I thank America for orchestrating this insanity in the first place?

Originally Posted by hddscan

It's ok. It's a new game of the world: to be afraid of Russia. Who is afraid more will get some "made in USA cookies"™
I personally see nothing wrong if Swedes would want to brush up their military defense capabilities.

Well it is insane, since the destroyer of nations, is the USA, whether it's via invasion like the Middle East, or orchestrating a coup d'etat or civil war (UA, Syria, Libya.....)

Personally I think Russia's behaviour is predictable and restrained and I can't help admiring what Putin did with Crimea because it was incredibly slick. Ukraine brought that upon itself by pure stupidity. Besides, they should have seen that coming and had a plan for it.

And even if Russia did become aggressive, Sweden has nothing that Russia could possibly want - not even an ice free port to the Atlantic. There is just zero credibility in this proposterous tin foil conspiracy.

I am just really, really paranoid that Sweden will be pushed into NATO. Not only would it be awful for Sweden (and Finland) but it would actually piss off a certain bear completely unnecessarily and create a really unpleasant situation pf suspicion where none needs to exists.

There is a small section maybe 5% who say they'd love to be invaded by Russia to stop mass immigration, Pride parades, radical feminism, and they believe it would be fun to be conscripted to the Russian army since it is a "real" army and some other ideas along those lines. They believe a republic in the RF is no worse off than a country in the EU. Mostly young right wing men have this view.

I thought we were done with the Cold War, but some people just couldn't leave a dead man in his grave.....

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I understand she had already converted all her savings to Russian rubles

I wonder if Hanna or anyone else here are able to see the connection between:

1. "System" shares growing from 6 to 14 roubles (!) in one day, 18 December
(check АФК Система, акция обыкновенная. , section "График архивных значений..."

.... and this

2. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6b5cd064-8...44feabdc0.html

(Russian investigators release billionaire Vladimir Yevtushenkov - December 17, 2014 7:54 pm)

Russian economy is like: Putin said smth, shares go up, Putin said smth else - shares go down. Anyone notable got arrested
(ordinary thing for Russia - google Yukos history) - shares plunge immideately.

In a long term perspective that is extremely risky choice. Since "АФК Система" contatains "Rosneft" oil company.
And you can`t predict if oil prices will go up. I believe, they won`t. Even in 1-2 years.

Same with Gazprom.

P.S. You can keep "Magnit", though. That`s a great company. (Food retail: stable and fast growing)

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

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Russian economy is like: Putin said smth, shares go up, Putin said smth else - shares go down. Anyone notable got arrested
(ordinary thing for Russia - google Yukos history) - shares plunge immideately.

In a long term perspective that is extremely risky choice. Since "АФК Система" contatains "Rosneft" oil company.
And you can`t predict if oil prices will go up. I believe, they won`t. Even in 1-2 years.

Don't worry.... Putin is an economic mastermind.... in 2 years, all will be better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q5KBPHxkP4

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

I wonder if Hanna or anyone else here are able to see the connection between:

1. "System" shares growing from 6 to 14 roubles (!) in one day, 18 December
(check АФК Система, акция обыкновенная. , section "График архивных значений..."

.... and this

2. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6b5cd064-8...44feabdc0.html

(Russian investigators release billionaire Vladimir Yevtushenkov - December 17, 2014 7:54 pm)

Russian economy is like: Putin said smth, shares go up, Putin said smth else - shares go down. Anyone notable got arrested
(ordinary thing for Russia - google Yukos history) - shares plunge immideately.

In a long term perspective that is extremely risky choice. Since "АФК Система" contatains "Rosneft" oil company.
And you can`t predict if oil prices will go up. I believe, they won`t. Even in 1-2 years.

Same with Gazprom.

P.S. You can keep "Magnit", though. That`s a great company. (Food retail: stable and fast growing)

I had no idea about that guy, but that 150% growth in a day did seem extremely strange to me. Even if there was no sanctions/oil/currency rates background, such growth alone would look pretty suspicious, and I would probably refrain from becoming a shareholder of such a company. It's an indicator of something serious going on in its internals. I think you're right about this - there's no correlation between that temp growth and the value of its shares in a long term perspective.

Btw, isn't that dude on the pic the ruler of a country where $1 is traded for more than 10,000 in their local currency?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I had no idea about that guy, but that 150% growth in a day did seem extremely strange to me. Even if there was no sanctions/oil/currency rates background, such growth alone would look pretty suspicious, and I would probably refrain from becoming a shareholder of such a company. It's an indicator of something serious going on in its internals.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Sistema is a telecoms & IT company.

No offends, but you should read first what do other post here. Not only write down your beliefs. It`s always kinda weird when someone not enough competent is trying to tell me what is going on in my own country.

АФК Система recently lost its large part - the oil company called Bashneft (I`ve made a mistake in earlier post, mixing its name). Which was purchased by Sistema in 2009. And got nothing in return. Welcome to Russia. That`s a real act of nationalization. It`s CEO finally got released (normal scheme for Russia: arrest for nothing->make him scared->take his company with no objections...) «Башнефть» перешла в собственность государства :: Бизнес ::

Yes, they still have got another notable active - MTS, the mobile operator. But don`t think that government or anyone else gives a sht about its future. Sistemas shares fell significantly since Evtushenkoves arrest and I doubt that without oil incomes they will ever recover. АФК Система, акция обыкновенная. [/url] (check them in 3 years perspective - График архивных значений.... on АФК Система, акция обыкновенная. ). MTS is not the only major operator, btw, others are Megafon, Beeline and Tele2. If MTS will disappear one day - no one will suffer much.

And concerning communists - a complete laughter. Obviously you don`t understand the Russian reality. Because they will never win any elections. Simply because we don`t have any elections. And, moreover, there are few real communists in Russia these days. That`s a fake party. The real risk of turning to mass nationalisations and plain economy ended with 1993 political crisis. They won`t have any chance to rule the country in old-faschoned manner. So funny, that many europeans don`t get that. Russians would better support Putin than those clowns.

There is no way that any US sanctions can hold Russia down in a longer perspective!

The country is falling into big big trouble fast. Since you still do not see the real problems of russians economy - I feel sorrow for you. I wrote enough in my neighbour thread. Sanctions are nothing but a catalyzer. There even was no need for USA to try hard (just like in 1991).

Putin bails out his friends... while Russian serfs (i.e. citizens) deal with rising prices and struggle, financially...

Putin Gives $8 Billion Contracts To Sanctioned Russian Oligarch Friends - Business Insider

"Companies linked to Russian billionaire Arkady Rotenberg and Gennady Timchenko, both close allies of Russian President Vladimir Putin, were given contracts worth 309 billion roubles (£3.6 billion, $8.1 billion) since western sanctions were imposed on the men in March.

SMP Bank, which is also subject to sanctions and unable to trade with companies in the EU and the US, received a 10-year state loan of about 100 billion roubles at an interest rate of 0.51%, according to Bloomberg. The money was provided under the condition that Rotenberg's firm rescue another Russian bank, Mosoblbank, which had fallen into difficulties."

Sistema is a telecoms & IT company.

Of course that's going to grow in Russia, it's a government strategy in RU to grow this kind of industry, plus Russia is overall a growth market, as a BRIC country.
It doesn't have to grow immediately - my retirement is over 25 years off!
I didn't know about the CEOs stint in prison or about him being released. I wasn't looking for quick profit.

The only risk I see with investing in Russia, is that the Communist party wins the election and starts to de-privatize or confiscate businesses without regard for the shareholders. Or that Russia's enemies manage to orchestrate some kind of neocon revolution and puts a pro-West puppet in charge of Russia. I think the chance of either thing happening is small.

Also - with Russia, you have to actively monitor the shares. Quick takeovers seem very common in the CIS market

There is no way that any US sanctions can hold Russia down in a longer perspective! BRICs are the future economically and Russia is part of that. A temporary glitch will change nothing. Quite the opposite - now is the time to invest in Russia.

There are not a lot of Russian companies trading on the London stock exchange, and in some cases purchases go through dollar - Risky if the dollar crashes! When that happened, it will not recover since the dollar is a bubble.
I bought something called "Raven Russia" too, apparently that's a property company in Russia.

I have less than 10% exposure to Russia in this portfolio so the risk is very limited.

Yes Serge, duh!!

if I thought the communists were going to win any elections, I would hardly invest in Russia would I? I invested exactly because I think Russia will remain capitalistic and that the economy will grow in the longer perspective.

But the Communists is the second largest party in Russian politics, so it's not unfeasable that they would win, is it? If Putin completely messes up, then they are the second largest party. If the biggest country messes up, the second biggest country picks up the votes.

It regularly happens in other countries and Russian poltics are more volatile than most. Just because it hasn't changed for a while, doesn't mean it never will. Only a very young person would think that status quo is forever. But as I said, I don't believe that's feasible in the least.

Like I said I already make a considerable amount of money on this investment so you'll have to excuse me if I'm not regretting this investment. I made over £3000 in one week with a total investment in Russian shares, of £5500. So frankly, I don't care if you think it's stupid.

If you read the British press on investing in Russia, most analysts say this opportunity to invest in Russian shares at rock bottom prices is too good to pass over.

Originally Posted by Hanna

But the Communists is the second largest party in Russian politics, so it's not unfeasable that they would win, is it? If Putin completely messes up, then they are the second largest party. .

It is not the party.

Have to say twice the same thing. Not a real political power, but a bunch of actors, employed by Kremlin and United Russia. In order to pretend that they participate in legislative process. Part of United Russia, if you wish.

Still difficult to understand?

Like I said I already make a considerable amount of money on this investment so you'll have to excuse me if I'm not regretting this investment. I made over £3000 in one week with a total investment in Russian shares, if £5500. So frankly, I don't care if you think it's stupid.

Take your 10 000 pounds (am I right) and invest in something else. As quickly as it is possible.
Avoid russian market as hell.

Anyway, that`s your life, you choose.

Originally Posted by Serge_spb

Avoid russian market as hell.

I think market is not your strong side.
Russian market is one of the most promising at the moment, considering the recent fall of practically all Russian shares.

I think you need to stop operating with emotions and start operating with facts. Although I understand that people that scream все пропало, шеф! are the most common kind in Russia currently, considering economical shock. Does not mean that you are right in every statement though.

Не принуждайте меня закрыть эти горячие политические темы из-за переходов на личности.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Не принуждайте меня закрыть эти горячие политические темы из-за переходов на личности.

Where is the problem? I think it's refreshing that a Russian, Serge_spb, is giving an accurate description of what is happening in Russia compared to the neo-Soviet rhethoric that dominates the political forum. It's the reason topics on the Ukraine conflict is censored.

I totally understand Serge_spb's frustration with Russians who sugarcoat problems in his country and ignorant Westerners who are left-wingers and cling to anyone who goes against the Western hegemony even though they are not informed regarding Russia.

There is a spin on anything in Russia that portrays it in the best possible light since most if not all mainstream media is controlled by the Kremlin. Ownership is concentrated in Putin/Kremlin-friendly entrepreneurs so it's difficult to obtain an objective report. When Western sources report something negative, it's accused of propaganda. So, I guess nothing 'bad' or worrisome happens in Russia. Or, Putin will explain with 'cornered bear' bedtime stories.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Where is the problem? I think it's refreshing that a Russian, Serge_spb, is giving an accurate description of what is happening in Russia compared to the neo-Soviet rhethoric that dominates the political forum. It's the reason topics on the Ukraine conflict is censored.

I totally understand Serge_spb's frustration with Russians who sugarcoat problems in his country and ignorant Westerners who are left-wingers and cling to anyone who goes against the Western hegemony even though they are not informed regarding Russia.

There is a spin on anything in Russia that portrays it in the best possible light since most if not all mainstream media is controlled by the Kremlin. Ownership is concentrated in Putin/Kremlin-friendly entrepreneurs so it's difficult to obtain an objective report. When Western sources report something negative, it's accused of propaganda. So, I guess nothing 'bad' or worrisome happens in Russia. Or, Putin will explain with 'cornered bear' bedtime stories.

Это всё мимо. Ты русский знаешь? Наверное, "из-за переходов на личности" не понял.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Yeah, exactly! Btw, my favorite ones of those are In Flames & Sonic Syndicate. And btw, this has been one of the main reasons I have so much respect for that country, that the Swedish metal bands pwn ! =)) ...

*Fives / bro fist* Mine too but hey, if you like In Flames then you totally could get all over Dead by April. The new Let The World Know album they dropped last spring's just so totally amazing! Highly recommended. Spin "Beautiful Nightmare" and see.
2 Swedish bands I almost forgot - At The Gates & Vildhjarta. The latter's seriously progressive.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

... It's the reason topics on the Ukraine conflict is censored.

No. Serge_spb and other members have contributed a lot of valid points to the debates. Also, I haven't seen anything but irrelevant personal comments being omitted.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

... Westerners who are left-wingers and cling to anyone who goes against the Western hegemony...

Too black and white. I'm a conservative and my parents are both Republicans. They voted for Romney in the 2012 elections. It's more about logic than political affiliation.

EDIT:

China has called Russia an irreplaceable partner on the world stage and China has made agreements to help get Russia through the financial crisis.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...ency-swap.html

That's an awesome turn of events!
Btw, the Angara-5 heavy lift rocket will be test launched at Plesetsk, in Arkhangelsk, tomorrow. They moved the launch back 2 days. It will replace the Proton rocket.

Валерия, Газманов и Кобзон - Песня про санкции (Голубой огонек)