Thread: Do you think in Russia there are not enough migrants?

Yeah, wait until you have Somalis walking around in ghost-like burkas on your streets, cooking food that make everyone on the block feel sick...
Who can not read and write and are supported by the tax payers while they continue to have more and more children.
I know these Somalis are not bad people and I do not wish them any harm. But they do not belong in Northen Europe anymore than Europeans belong in Africa.

So do you think that if Pakistanis, Hindus, Arabs, Africans were in the sphere of England, France ets, they shouldn't be hindered to move there now?

Well, they DID bring it upon themselves partly. But the immigrants in England and France at usually WORK.

It's much worse in Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia where they are said to be asylum seekers and refugees and are supported by the government for years as their asylum applications are processed. If they are sent back because their asylum application fail, they get something lik USD 20, 000 to start over on if they have a large family.


Also, in Russia you have a population deficit, don't you. So you might actually need the immigrants.

The article that Romik links to says that the immigrants have a lower rate of criminality than average in Russia.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Yeah, wait until you have Somalis walking around in ghost-like burkas on your streets, cooking food that make everyone on the block feel sick... .

Hanna, this made me giggle... I used to live upstairs from Somalis who fit this description.. (well, I don't know about their literary skills, but the other parts) .. The only two interactions we'd ever have were 1) They would tell me almost daily to turn my (admittedly loud) music down.. and 2) They would routinely burn cooking oil, and it would waft up to my place =)

I agree with you that these types are probably not bad people.. All things considered, they weren't the worst neighbors I've had.

What would you think of a program like, a group of literate volunteers, who went around to these immigrant communities to impart some basic skills - survival reading/writing basics, etc....? Maybe that sounds silly, but at inception it seemed a good idea to me..

I don't like in Russia (as yet) but I would volunteer for something like this if I did and could..

There's probably more involved here than I know about, though.


Umm... and I know I probably shouldn't even go INTO this part but.. what you said about Europeans don't belong in Africa/Africans don't belong in Europe? As an acquaintance of yours who appreciates the personality you've presented on the pages of masterrussian.net... Well, you seem like a pretty tolerant person. I'd advise looking at that statement again.. Maybe in light of the well-supported scientific/archeological hypothesis that's quickly on its way to being accepted canon, namely that all human life began roughly in the center of Africa and worked its way out over millenniae, that this is an overly harsh statement.
I mean I get what you're trying to say - I think..... But maybe these immigrants have a need for a new place to be "from," and the old place that they were "from" is simply not tenable.. Such was often the case with the jews and the gypsies, from time to time in history.. Even the colonists who started the US were fish-out-of-water, and if the Native Americans told them they don't belong in America and need to go back to Europe.. well, not only would "religious freedom" be a lot less established in today's day and age, but my country and anything good it might have brought into existence would never have happened..
Anyway we're more likely in agreeance than not, that we all need to titrate one part Patriotism with one part Tolerance - if either one outweighs the other, the brew will be bitter.. (that's what I think, at least)

KidK ... Yeah I know my comment was a bit intolerant. It came out too harsh. Obviously I don't mean that there should be no Africans in Europe. I don't mind people who work and are part of society. The skin colour is not relevant.

But the situation with immigration is out of control in Europe, and it is a different type of people arriving in Europe, compared with America. I feel very torn about this. It's the culture clash that does not work.
But the facts cannot be denied. Most long term unemployed are foreign-born, and also most of those in prison.

And btw, in Sweden the state pays the immigrants to go to school and take literacy, language and work skills courses. So, volunteers are not needed. But many of them don't go, or they go and are not capable of learning. The women don't see why they need to read and write, and the men don't particularly encourage it.

I honestly think that they are decent people, many of them. They would probably like to work but they can't - they are not allowed to while the asylum claim is being investigated. And afterwards they cannot get a job because people simply don't trust that they are competent and hardworking, and their culture is different. Many male refugees from the Middle East and Africa do not use deodorant and or shower regularly and it is very noticable. These sorts of things prevent them from getting a job.

Anyonw can go by train, bus or walk to Europe from the Middle East. They turn up with $ 10, unrealistic dreams and are forced to start lying about having an asylum claim because that is the only way that they can stay legally. It takes years to check up their claims and they get a lawyer representing them, at no cost to them. In the meantime the system messes them up as they cannot work. Many become disillusioned, marginalised or criminal and lose their self esteem.

I would much rather see a quota for foreign workers, low skilled and high skilled - first come first served, and a special quota in each category for women, so that not only men come (that is a problem in the refugee groups, there are very few women).

Somali family in Sweden - will they ever be able to adjust_

Originally Posted by kidkboom

Umm... and I know I probably shouldn't even go INTO this part but.. what you said about Europeans don't belong in Africa/Africans don't belong in Europe? As an acquaintance of yours who appreciates the personality you've presented on the pages of masterrussian.net... Well, you seem like a pretty tolerant person. I'd advise looking at that statement again.. Maybe in light of the well-supported scientific/archeological hypothesis that's quickly on its way to being accepted canon, namely that all human life began roughly in the center of Africa and worked its way out over millenniae, that this is an overly harsh statement.

Please leave alone your overborne PC for your Country, we aren't insulting them but we do not have to have them.

Originally Posted by Romik

Please leave alone your overborne PC for your Country, we aren't insulting them but we do not have to have them.

Respect. And of course the opinion of one insignificant liberal-minded american won't change a thing. But, well, here's the thing: These migrants, refugees, outcasts, are already everywhere else. They are being driven from their homelands, those who aren't sickened or killed there. And Russia happens to be the biggest (physical) country on Earth, at least so I'm led to believe.

So, sure, you don't have to have them. But where are they gonna go? There's a famous Catch-22 to the "NIMBY" principle. And what is going to become their fate, if they're not allowed in?

Better to have them in and tell them what to do and how to behave, enough so that all parties get along. Better to recruit them to make your country stronger, to employ the unique skills and assets they may be able to bring. It's moving with the force of the punch, instead of blocking it with resisting force. In the end, it can give you strength, instead of taking it away.

That said, nothing will ever make me like the smell of scalded cooking oil. ;

EDIT: For the record, I'm not at all a fan of the US' current policy on immigration, which causes problems for many people who would choose to stay in the US if they could. It's an old running joke, the Green Card thing.. But it's also a policy problem that needs to get fixed. (--1 romney)

Originally Posted by Hanna

Also, in Russia you have a population deficit, don't you. So you might actually need the immigrants.

The same goes for Scandinavia, doesn't it? So be happy for Somalis, they'll save you

The article that Romik links to says that the immigrants have a lower rate of criminality than average in Russia.

They say whatever they want to achieve their goals.

Moscow Investigators say that every seventh murder and almost half rapes committed by foreigners. And in most cases the perpetrators were in the capital illegally.
Новости NEWSru.com :: Столичные следователи подсчитали, что на совести мигрантов половина изнасилований и каждое седьмое убийство

In Moscow, in the I half of 2011 the proportion of crimes committed by illegal immigrants accounted for 48.1%.
МВД: Мигранты-нелегалы совершили половину всех преступлений в Москве :: NoNaMe

It seems you like, everywhere it's good, they work and improve demography but only for Scandinavia it's bad