Thread: Dedovschina and brain drain

Originally Posted by Nerms

Eric,
This is a common practice thru out the world for people to have a mandatory term of service in the military.
Military service - Citizendia
The US had this as early as Vietnam.

Yep, I know it. But many of present democratic countries formerly used to burn people for their opinions. I think we need to move on sometimes, and the humanity has outgrown such things as "draft".

First you need to
1) Organise world peace and achieve stability at all borders
2) Find out a way of convincing leaders of all countries that there is not going to be any more war against their country.

May I suggest that you start by campaigning for withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan and Iraq. As an American voter and citizen that's an area where you can make a difference. Next, campaign for the US withdraw it's bases from places like Korea and Europe. Next, try to find a solution to the Israel question.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Yep, I know it. But many of present democratic countries formerly used to burn people for their opinions. I think we need to move on sometimes, and the humanity has outgrown such things as "draft".

I don't think humanity will ever outgrow this thing. Even some of that 'democratic' coutries still have drafts and that situation is not making anyone unhappy. In Russia, there are hundred and one way to avoid military service if you really don't want to serve. Moreover, not every country can afford a professional army where you have to pay people for the service. This is VERY expensive.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Yep, I know it. But many of present democratic countries formerly used to burn people for their opinions. I think we need to move on sometimes, and the humanity has outgrown such things as "draft".

First you need to
1) Organise world peace and achieve stability at all borders
2) Find out a way of convincing leaders of all countries that there is not going to be any more war against their country.

May I suggest that you start by campaigning for withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan and Iraq. As an American voter and citizen that's an area where you might be able to make a small difference. Next, campaign for the US withdraw it's bases from places like Korea and Europe. Next, try to find a solution to the Israel question... Putting missiles anywhere along the border of Russia is definitely not a good way to make them feel that it's safe to reduce the army. But right now that is what the US is proposing.

If you can tackle all those problems. then after that you can raise the question of dropping conscription again.

We have the longest land border and we need someone to guard it. Especially our south -- to block drug caravans bound for central Russia and Europe. This is not because of missiles (ordinary soldiers won't help in the next world war if it happens). Still, I think that the army size can be reduced at least by half. I cannot imagine modern warfare of such a large scale as it was in WW2 when the frontline spanned several thousand kilometers.

Originally Posted by Hanna

First you need to
1) Organise world peace and achieve stability at all borders
2) Find out a way of convincing leaders of all countries that there is not going to be any more war against their country.

May I suggest that you start by campaigning for withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan and Iraq. As an American voter and citizen that's an area where you might be able to make a small difference. Next, campaign for the US withdraw it's bases from places like Korea and Europe. Next, try to find a solution to the Israel question... Putting missiles anywhere along the border of Russia is definitely not a good way to make them feel that it's safe to reduce the army. But right now that is what the US is proposing.

If you can tackle all those problems. then after that you can raise the question of dropping conscription again.

Just in case I would remind you that I'm not against the army per se, I agree almost every country needs it. I'm against conscription and I believe the army should be professional and consist of those who wish to serve. Forcing someone to serve in the army against his will is a torture for both the man and the army (at the respective scale). Having no wish to serve, the man will only aim to get away from his service and get out of the army as soon as possible. Just imagine, for instance, what that would look like, if everyone was forced to become a doctor for a year. I guess hospitals would drown in patients' suits.

Its becoming less prevalent in the world. Precisely for the reasons you stated. But its unlikely to go away completely because of the reasons Ramil stated.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Just imagine, for instance, what that would look like, if everyone was forced to become a doctor for a year. I guess hospitals would drown in patients' suits.

The analogy is not exactly right. It's more like forcing everyone to take medical training for a year, in case we'll need a lot of doctors in future. Most of these guys don't do anything useful or potentially harmful (like protecting the borders or guarding arsenals), and a lot of regiments are based in the cities, so they just learn military-related stuff.

There are a few sad exceptions, though, when recruits had to paticipate in real action (Afganistan, Chechnya). I don't know about Chechnya, but with Afganistan these 18-19 year olds didn't even know they were going to war, until they got there.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Is there debate about stopping conscription in Russia?

One of the most popular books on Russia in the the UK, is Anna Politskaya's book (forgotten the name). Bullying in the military is an issue that she raises - it seems pretty clear that it causes a lot of problems.

There is such a debate, but this debate is hardly ever heard.
The journalist Anna Politkovskaya was assassinated in 2006. Most of the Russian journalists think that she was assassinated because of her activity in human rights, and that she was 'inconvenient' to some because of raising such urgent issues.

Слушайте, о чём может вообще идти речь? Отмена призывной системы? Это будет равнозначно ликвидации нашей армии как таковой. Призыв - это традиционная, привычная для нас система. Отмени её - кто пойдет служить за такие деньги по контракту? Или нам вместо пограничников резиновые куклы надувать (как технику в последнее время). Чтобы отказаться от призывной системы необходимы глубокие реформы, на которые как всегда не хватит денег. Нынешнее реформирование (труды г-на Сердюкова) есть ни что иное, как окончательное и планомерное её(армии) разрушение. И так уже отменили и сократили всё что можно. Отмена призыва - контрольный выстрел в голову агонизирующему гиганту. Ramil, конечно, прав - вполовину сократить можно, но только тогда будет это возможно, когда армия будет нормально технически укомплектована(т.е. в ближайшей перспективе - никогда).
Что касается самой службы, то я считаю, что это полезно для юношей и ничего ужасного в этом нет. Существует закон (Положение о Призыве в ВС РФ), но многие предпочитают длительные дебаты о его состоятельности, правомерности его применения(по отношению к себе обычно=)), а далее откупы и дачу взятки за откос непосредственному его соблюдению. Это очень грустно. Что это за страна, где люди ХОТЯТ жить в правовом государстве, где закон был бы превыше всего, но САМИ всячески эти законы обходят и порождают мздоимства? Дисциплина нужна, друзья мои, во всём. Армия её прививает.

P.S. Простите, что по-русски, писал на скорую руку