Thread: Crimea joining the Russian Federation and its implications?

Serge, thanks for your reply. I'm British, so I know from the Northern Ireland troubles how destructive sectarian conflict can be. I'm old enough (4 to remember hearing IRA bombs explode in London. Is the Ukraine a very complicated problem? - you bet! But I don't think that the referendum this weekend is going to help. I can also add that Putin's record on "fair and honest" elections isn't very impressive. Re Zubov's sacking/firing, here is what he told Slon:

– Как вам сообщили об увольнении?

– Самым обычным образом. Мне сказали, чтобы я либо написал заявление по собственному желанию, либо ждал, когда меня уволят по статье. Я ответил, что сам ничего писать не буду, пускай увольняют как хотят. И на завтра я вызван к проректору, видимо, по этому вопросу.

– И вам пояснили, что увольнение связано с вашей заметкой в «Ведомостях»?

– Это мне сказали прямо, что все из-за этой заметки. Но никаких подробностей говорить не стали. Ну, всем все было понятно.

Hanna - you ask: "Are you saying they are some kind of brainwashed people who can't or won't think for themselves?" Have a look at the thread on the Sochi Olympics where one Russian here says - and he insists he's serious - that he would like all information in the media to be controlled by the people in power. So yes, I would say some Russians ARE brainwashed - or, worse, would want to be. Read also the messages posted by a Russian who says he doesn't care that Americans were banned from adopting orphans in Russia - even if it means the orphans have to stay in their (sometimes vile) care homes. The word I would use to describe Russians' reaction to the clear-cut corruption in their country is "apathy". They don't care - as long as it doesn't affect them personally. My point is that it will eventually affect them. If the turmoil in Ukraine shows anything, it is that politics and the kind of politicians who run a country can make a direct difference to individuals and families.

As for your point that this is a "forum for language learners", well, this is a thread in a section about "politics", therefore I decided to contribute to it. There appears to be no purely linguistic element in it. If, for some incredible reason, my Russian friends take issue with what I've written, they are of course free to say so, unless the Duma has passed another law to inhibit free speech - so there! (I love you really.)

Originally Posted by edvalais

Hanna - you ask: "Are you saying they are some kind of brainwashed people who can't or won't think for themselves?" Have a look at the thread on the Sochi Olympics where one Russian here says - and he insists he's serious - that he would like all information in the media to be controlled by the people in power. So yes, I would say some Russians ARE brainwashed - or, worse, would want to be. Read also the messages posted by a Russian who says he doesn't care that Americans were banned from adopting orphans in Russia - even if it means the orphans have to stay in their (sometimes vile) care homes. The word I would use to describe Russians' reaction to the clear-cut corruption in their country is "apathy". They don't care - as long as it doesn't affect them personally. My point is that it will eventually affect them. If the turmoil in Ukraine shows anything, it is that politics and the kind of politicians who run a country can make a direct difference to individuals and families.

As for your point that this is a "forum for language learners", well, this is a thread in a section about "politics", therefore I decided to contribute to it. There appears to be no purely linguistic element in it. If, for some incredible reason, my Russian friends take issue with what I've written, they are of course free to say so, unless the Duma has passed another law to inhibit free speech - so there! (I love you really.)

Well, Russia has a different experience and view on some of the phenomenons you discuss.
I don't support the idea that anything Western is necessarily better. Better in the West, maybe. But better for Russia? That's for the Russians to decide. I don't care and it's not my business.

Plus governing Russia is completely different challenge than even the UK. Can't apply the same logic - besides, how democratic is the UK really, if you sincerely think about it. Two near identical parties, and plenty of stuff going on that everyone knows the majority wouldn't agree with, if they had any real influence.

I agree with your view of Russian apathy about corruption. But it's easy for me to judge it, or get worked up, coming from one of the least corrupt countries in the world. I try not to, even if it disgusts me.

Not super interested in Olympics so I didn't read the thread, but it more or less worked pretty well and no terrorist attack, so I guess it's a success.

Originally Posted by edvalais

Serge, thanks for your reply. I'm British, so I know from the Northern Ireland troubles how destructive sectarian conflict can be. I'm old enough (4 to remember hearing IRA bombs explode in London. Is the Ukraine a very complicated problem? - you bet! But I don't think that the referendum this weekend is going to help. I can also add that Putin's record on "fair and honest" elections isn't very impressive. Re Zubov's sacking/firing, here is what he told Slon:

– Как вам сообщили об увольнении?

– Самым обычным образом. Мне сказали, чтобы я либо написал заявление по собственному желанию, либо ждал, когда меня уволят по статье. Я ответил, что сам ничего писать не буду, пускай увольняют как хотят. И на завтра я вызван к проректору, видимо, по этому вопросу.

– И вам пояснили, что увольнение связано с вашей заметкой в «Ведомостях»?

– Это мне сказали прямо, что все из-за этой заметки. Но никаких подробностей говорить не стали. Ну, всем все было понятно.

Hanna - you ask: "Are you saying they are some kind of brainwashed people who can't or won't think for themselves?" Have a look at the thread on the Sochi Olympics where one Russian here says - and he insists he's serious - that he would like all information in the media to be controlled by the people in power. So yes, I would say some Russians ARE brainwashed - or, worse, would want to be. Read also the messages posted by a Russian who says he doesn't care that Americans were banned from adopting orphans in Russia - even if it means the orphans have to stay in their (sometimes vile) care homes. The word I would use to describe Russians' reaction to the clear-cut corruption in their country is "apathy". They don't care - as long as it doesn't affect them personally. My point is that it will eventually affect them. If the turmoil in Ukraine shows anything, it is that politics and the kind of politicians who run a country can make a direct difference to individuals and families.

As for your point that this is a "forum for language learners", well, this is a thread in a section about "politics", therefore I decided to contribute to it. There appears to be no purely linguistic element in it. If, for some incredible reason, my Russian friends take issue with what I've written, they are of course free to say so, unless the Duma has passed another law to inhibit free speech - so there! (I love you really.)

I'm also not too young, 45 soon and I served in Afghanistan so I can remember hearing explosions of jet-proppelled missiles and I still remember the sign "Made in USA" written on a stabilizer of one of them that luckily hadn't exploded. So tell your stories to someone else. Russian people know much better than you from the experience of two Chechen wars how destructive separatism can be.
As for Crimean affairs I don't see any ground for destructive protests of local people against joining RF. There is no language, religion or historical ground for it.
I say more. If the US had not poked their nose into inner Ukrainia bussiness if they hadn't finance Maidan, if they hadn't press toward inclusion Ukraine in NATO, there would be no separatism in Crimea at all.

Now, about Zubkov. I don't know the level of your Russian, but I can see it is not high enough to understand that there is no actual confirmation of his being sacked in your excerpt.
So let me translate it to you:

– Как вам сообщили об увольнении?
(-What way were you informed about your sacking?)

– Самым обычным образом. Мне сказали, чтобы я либо написал заявление по собственному желанию, либо ждал, когда меня уволят по статье. Я ответил, что сам ничего писать не буду, пускай увольняют как хотят. И на завтра я вызван к проректору, видимо, по этому вопросу.
(-A very usual way. I was said to write an application to leave the service on my own will, or to wait till they will sack me according to an article in the law. I answered that I would write nothing myself, let them sack me the way they wish. And I am called to the prorector on tomorrow, apparently to discuss this matter.)

– И вам пояснили, что увольнение связано с вашей заметкой в «Ведомостях»?
(- Did they explain to you, that your sacking is connected with your article in "Vedomosti"?)

– Это мне сказали прямо, что все из-за этой заметки. Но никаких подробностей говорить не стали. Ну, всем все было понятно.
(- They said me starightforward that everything's about this article. But they didn't tell me any detail. Well, everybody understood everything).

So, as you see, the man, according to his own words was put under pressure, but for the moment when this interview was taken, his was not sacked yet. And he wasn't sacked later. Actually he wasn't sacked at all, wich was writen in my prooflink. Moreover, we know that the professor was put under pressure only from his own words. So, it's for you to decide whom to belive. I belive to the facts, and the facts say that he was not sacked.

I'm sorry to say it to you, but the rest of your post shows that it's you who is brainwashed.