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About LinkBacksHm... I know in the Baltic states they brought in people of Baltic origin who grew up in the USA, Germany and Scandinavia to run the country....Originally Posted by DrBaldhead
And I read a rather funny article in a Swedish paper a few years ago, by a tourist to Tallinn who was pretty shocked to discover that our innocent darlings across the Baltic sea have parades in the honour of Nazi ideals. On EU territory! And I saw some pretty serious Nazi graffiti in Riga.
I thought this was a small and very confused minority who turned to this type of history and ideals as a counter-reaction to everything that the USSR stood for. I grew up in the shadow of fingerpointing about whose parents or grandparents were or weren't a Nazi, who might have collaborated or supported them and I just don't like endless mulling over the events in the war.
However, as your picture points out, it's quite a different thing if a modern person takes a conscious decision to praise nazi ideals.
I might be mixing up Eastern European history - but I really thought the Ukranians were mostly communist partisans during the war, or drafted into the Red Army... Could have sworn it came up in school history. Or maybe I am mixing it up with elsewhere in the USSR, or Eastern Europe.
Haha Morfpheus. ok! Thanks for this interesting info. I didn't know that about Ukraine. I only heard about the partisans.*Morpheus mode off*
Western regions of Ukraine are quite special. Their population always distanced themselves from the eastern half. When it began and why is long story spanning over two hundred years. When the nazi came there, they were met with flowers. One of the reasons for that was the propaganda nazi used to spread in attacked regions posing themselves as liberators. Many of the "collaborationists" formed an army led by Stepan Bandera (not for long actually) and showed even more brutality than their patrons and paid dearly for their treachery later. Nowadays there is a social group of people, who consider themselves their descendants and believe that their grandpas were fighting not for the nazis but against communism (and Soviet "jewish government"). Today they proudly wear nazi symbols and build plans to get their revenge. They may not be actual nazis (yet they retain the nazi hate towards Hebrew), but to us, Russians, everybody who wears that is considered a threat, so our journalists don't hesitate to call them "nazis" as well.
A lot of the Ukrainian Jews left the country though, i.e. to Israel and North America, right? I thought maybe almost all? And are those Jews who remain concerned about being Jewish? I met people from the ex USSR who were all or partially Jewish and all of them were radically atheist. I was in Odessa which has a reputation for being "Jewish", but I didn't see any sign of Jewish life at all, apart from some American Hasidic Jews speaking English. But I guess whatever Jews are left in Ukraine lean more towards Russia then, than with these nationalists?
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Yes, well if it's old people I don't care. I guess all those who lived through the war need to talk about it sometimes, with others who had a similar experience. Not defending them and I don't like it, but it's not my business. And most people in Germany and Austria have pictures of their older relatives in Nazi uniforms etc. People didn't know, they just followed the prevailing ideology like sheep.... I think we can all relate to that....!
It's when they bring it out TODAY, with modern people and start whitewashing Nazism that it's disturbing. Today we know the facts. People in the 1930s- 1940s did not have the full picture.
I actually have some relatives from Estonia. There were several brothers. Two were just farmers, but one was better educated and worked for the Nazis during the war. Funnily enough, another brother who was much younger than the others, was a socialist or communist, pro-USSR. It's a long story, but the brother who worked for the Nazis had a big part of his life destroyed because of it, even though he managed to leave Estonia before the USSR picked him up. He was such a drunk that he didn't live to see Estonia as an independent nation. All but one of the brothers left the country in connection with the USSR annexation.
The more I read about Ukraine, the more I think, just split the country and be done with it!
Ukraine is new as a nation state anyway, it's not like it's a country that's been around for centuries.
Maybe just admit that the borders of the Ukrainian SSR did not actually reflect the real borders of Ukraina and a mistake was made in the general chaos of '92-'93.
See my previous comment. I mean, it can't continue like this! It's been over 20 years since the USSR, and Ukraine still hasn't found its feet as a country. Everyone and their dog is trying to exploit and manipulate Ukraine.
For example, in Belarus it's working better even though the "Belarussian" identity isn't really rooted in most people and a lot of them weren't even born there. Also in the Baltic states, and even Moldova, I think. With the current borders and population it might be unrealistic to make a go of it, in Ukraine.
Sorry I am ranting about this, I really care, seriously, I think it's very tragic and I want Ukrainians to have a better future with stability and prosperity, and without being manipulated or exploited.
