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does the пока не construction mean "until"? The не throws me off because it seems to literally say "until not" but the meaning seems to be "until."
А вот ты поработай своей головой, пока не распухнет, пока пол с потолком не сольётся! И когда жужжать уже нечем, вот тут и ползёшь туда, где открыто.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Пока, strictly speaking, is translated as till. Until is translated as (до тех пор), пока не... But the difference is so subtle that I can't even explain it.
I think the difference lays in the double negative that is common in Russian but forbidden in English. So
А вот ты поработай своей головой, пока не распухнет, пока пол с потолком не сольётся!
You, try to use your head until it swells, (note that there is no highlighted negative in English - it is "hidden" in the un- prefix), till the floor merges with the ceiling.
(Note I didn't use until in the second part)
I'm still not sure whether my translation is absolutely correct, though :lol:
At the same time пока may be translated as while (or even during).
Пока шел дождь, я сидел дома. - I sat at home while it was raining.
Но ведь sperk спрашивал именно про пока не.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
And note that the aspect is always perfective/совершиный вид for both глаголы...
Здравствуйте! Меня тоже всегда мучит "пока" и "пока не".
Я смотрел телевизор, пока он звонил мне.
Я смотрел телевизор, пока он не звонил мне.
=здесь оба варианта можно?в подобных случаях можно употребить "пока" вместо "пока не"??
Всем заранее спасибо и с Рождеством!
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Originally Posted by Бармалей
Я смотрел телевизор, пока он звонил мне. - это значит, что он тебе звонил, телефон звонил, а ты в это время смотрел телевизор и не брал трубку.Quote:
Originally Posted by paramita
Я смотрел телевизор, пока он не позвонил мне. (совершенный вид глагола!)
Это значит, что ты смотрел телевизор, но вдруг тебе позвонил кто-то (он), и ты сразу перестал смотреть телевизор, снял трубку и стал говорить по телефону. Это значит, что ты смотрел телевизор ДО ТОГО МОМЕНТА, когда случился звонок, а потом прекратил смотреть.
Я думаю, что "пока" нельзя заменять на "пока не", потому что иначе получаются предложения с разным смыслом.Quote:
в подобных случаях можно употребить "пока" вместо "пока не"??
You can use both but they have opposite meanings :)Quote:
Originally Posted by paramita
Я смотрел телевизор, пока он звонил мне. -
I have been watching TV while he called me. (The telephone rang but I didn't pick it up)
Я смотрел телевизор, пока он не звонил мне.
I have been watching TV until he called me. (I was watching TV because he didn't call)
:oQuote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
"Я смотрел телевизор, пока он звонил мне". - Мне почему-то это не по-русски звучит.
I have been watching TV while he called me. - Я бы перевела так: Я смотрел телевизор в то время, когда он мне звонил.
"Я смотрел телевизор, пока он не звонил мне". - Это тоже по-моему странно звучит.
I have been watching TV until he called me. - Я бы перевела: Я смотрел телевизор, пока он мне не позвонил (до того момента, когда он мне позвонил).
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
Hm... sounds strange in English...those sentences of yours about the TV and phone call. The first one in particular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
They sound strange in Russian too. I think that Ramil just did the direct translation to show this strangeness.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReDSanchous
I get this but in Russian the sentences are technically ok. More or less ok. In English, however, Ramil's first sentence not only shows the strangeness but may also cause confusion among Russian learners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
А paramita по-русски лучше понимает, чем по-английски :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
А, ну тогда, конечно, лучше объяснить по-русски. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Although Ramil's English is hundred times better than mine, for instance, he still can do mistakes, don't he? Errare humanum est! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ReDSanchous
Well, I'm not trying to point out his mistakes. It's not my prerogative and I don't think he'd aprrove of that. The thing is we don't need to confuse Russian learners :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
Don't ever make my English an example! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
In fact, I do many mistakes, especially when I'm just expressing myself and not carefully translating some paid translation order.
When you are expressing yourself, it is essential that others can understand what you're saying. I think this only applies to conversation because you have got scarcely any time to think of a well-structured sentence and without any mistakes at that in converstaion!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Are you a translator?
That's my second profession. I have a full time job not related to English, but take occasional translations when I need more money :) I tried that alone but you can't have more than $800-1000 in Moscow as a freelancer. (Usual pay is 3-5$ per 1 page or 1800 characters w/o spaces). But it adds extra cash in your pocket if you can spare several nights for translations.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReDSanchous
As for my mistakes - I'm typing fast and blindly so due to bad eyesight I sometimes miss a lot of mistakes/typos. Sometimes my eyes are elsewhere off the screen so I have to relay on the dexterity of my fingers :lol:
It sounds very interesting indeed! It would be great if I could do paid translations at times when I am a bit older. I could be a translator now (theoratically) but I do not have enough time to perfect my English. Why don't you get glasses or contact lenses? Is it because you don't want to get used to wearing them all the time? It must be very tiring to work nights, mustn't it? I have been spending more and more days studying till 4-5 am recently, so I can imagine how hard it must be to work nights. Some say studying is harder than work though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
I'm wearing glasses since I was 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReDSanchous
Yes working at night is tiring considering that you have to get up at 8 and go to work :)
Sleeping for 2-3 hours a day is bad for health though so I don't do that often.
That's why your eye is so big and annoying! :lol: (Sorry, I mean no offence at all).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Рамиль, ты можешь послать меня нах за этот пост, и будешь прав, но извини, не смог удержаться :P
It seems like I also will soon have to start to wear glasses. As you've been wearing glasses since childhood, you are probably used to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
I can't figure out why everyone believes that Ramil's eye's annoying because it doesn't look so to me! Frankly, I don't pay much attention to the members' avatars. Unless they are something like red mixed with blue.
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Originally Posted by Ramil
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Although Ramil's English is a hundred times better than mine, for instance, he still can make mistakes, can't he? Errare humanum est!
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Don't ever make my English an example! Smile
In fact, I make many mistakes, especially when I'm just expressing myself and not carefully translating some paid translation order.
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Sleeping for 2-3 hours a day is bad for your/one's health though so I don't do that often.
Почему? Эти цвета тебя раздражают, что-ли? Или вредят зрение?Quote:
Unless they are something like red mixed with blue.
Thanks, basurero. I wish you corrected us more often.
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Originally Posted by basurero
I have been looking through the thread and I haven't found a clear-cut answer to the original post, so I'll simply go ahead and answer it and I apologize if I'm stating the already obvious.
пока = while (not "until", using "пока" as "until" is incorrect)
пока не = until
Here "не" is not a negation, and in this sense is somewhat similar to the French "ne...que" which means "only"
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Originally Posted by basurero
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Sleeping for 2-3 hours a day is bad for your/one's health though so I don't do that often.
Почему? Эти цвета тебя раздражают, что-ли? Или вредят зрение?[/quote:2uni75sa]Quote:
Unless they are something like red mixed with blue.
It's not that such colours as red and blue annoy me. Nor do they drive me round the bent. It's combinations like red with blue or red with green that really piss me off. I can stand them but they are something I would like to avoid looking at for long.