Thread: говорил for a one time act

Саакашвлили "никогда не говорил", что располагает проверенной информацией о причастности российских спецслужб к мятежу в грузинской танковой части в Мухровани.

И, как бы желая оправдать свою праздность, старик говорил, обращаясь к бабе, лежащей на земле:...

why do you use говорил for one time, seemingly perfective actions?
thanks

Hm, I think this verb has been already discussed. And someone was saying it was archaism...
Well, "говорил" means "used to say", or in this case it'd be Past Continuous: "while being interviewed Саакашвили was saying that..."

Originally Posted by iriroma

Hm, I think this verb has been already discussed. And someone was saying it was archaism...

The discussion was about the word "отвечал"; but no, in this case it's not an archaism.

About Саакашвили sentence, the point is that there was no any one time, perfective action, and there was no action at all. Because he NEVER said. When you say "someone никогда не + [verb]", you always use an imperfective verb:

Я никогда не встречалась с этим человеком.
Он никогда не думал, что будет космонавтом.
Он никогда не хотел водить машину.
Я никогда не говорила, что не люблю мороженое!

и т.д.

"Я никогда не сказала...", "он никогда не подумал...", "он никогда не встретился..." are wrong.


As for the second sentence, I think that the speech of the old man could be long, not only just one phrase; in this case "he was talking.../ he was saying..." can be okay.

Оля, точно!!! Это был глагол "отвечать"!! Но все равно "говорил" тоже упоминался!

2)

...старик говорил, обращаясь к бабе, лежащей на земле...

Imperfective is used to produce effect of presence. Like if you were watching and listening to that old man while he was talking.
1)

Саакашвлили никогда не говорил

Yes, here it is because of никогда. Still relations of никогда and verbs are more complicated.

Present: Никогда не говорю (imp. only)
Past: Никогда не говорил (imp. only)
Future: Никогда не скажу and Никогда не буду говорить (both)
Subjunctive: никогда бы не сказал and никогда бы не говорил (both)

Originally Posted by Оля

Я никогда не говорила, что не люблю мороженое![/i]

Can't you use сказать in something like
После смерти его жены, он никогда не сказал ни одного слова.
I thought in some cases you can use perfective verbs even when speaking about something which didn't occur.

Originally Posted by Zubr

Can't you use сказать in something like
После смерти его жены_ он никогда не сказал ни одного слова.
I thought in some cases you can use perfective verbs even when speaking about something which didn't occur.

Oh, yes, you're right, this sentence is possible; but actually it really sounds a bit archaic (and even clumsy) to me.

P.S. I've thought about another example: "он так с ним никогда и не встретился..." sounds okay. But I think it's because of the "так и не..." construction.

Originally Posted by Zubr

Originally Posted by Оля

Я никогда не говорила, что не люблю мороженое![/i]

Can't you use сказать in something like
После смерти его жены, он никогда не сказал ни одного слова.
I thought in some cases you can use perfective verbs even when speaking about something which didn't occur.

You can say "...он не (without никогда) сказал ни (without одного as there're no articles in Russian and it's clear that one word is meant) слова" in a sense he didn't make any comment. Otherwise you say "...он больше не сказал/произнес ни слова.

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by Zubr

Can't you use сказать in something like
После смерти его жены_ он никогда не сказал ни одного слова.
I thought in some cases you can use perfective verbs even when speaking about something which didn't occur.

Oh, yes, you're right, this sentence is possible; but actually it really sounds a bit archaic (and even clumsy) to me.

P.S. I've thought about another example: "он так с ним никогда и не встретился..." sounds okay. But I think it's because of the "так и не..." construction.

Оля! I also thought about "так никогда и не встретился".
For example, I wanted to meet a person but s/he left without having met me, so here the perfective verb is used in Russian.
Although here http://www.russianlessons.net/grammar/verbs_aspect.php they say

7. If you are saying that something didn’t happen you use the imperfective aspect.

Originally Posted by Оля

P.S. I've thought about another example: "он так с ним никогда и не встретился..."

what does that mean? I don't get what так means.
thanks

Originally Posted by sperk

Originally Posted by Оля

P.S. I've thought about another example: "он так с ним никогда и не встретился..."

what does that mean? I don't get what так means.
thanks

It means, "He never met him", "They never met". Alas, it's hard to translate the sentence into English in some another way.
"Так и не..." means that something was planned to happen, or someone wanted very much it to happen, but the event never happened anyway. "Так и не..." has a slight nuance of disappointment.

It's hard to translate the sentence into English in some another way.

I think your translation is quite right.
As Оля said, if you used "так и не" there would always be a feeling of regret or disappointment. So you could say it in this way: Unfortunately (Alas!), he never met him.

[quote=Оля]

Originally Posted by sperk

Originally Posted by "Оля":3mbfykhg

P.S. I've thought about another example: "он так с ним никогда и не встретился..."

what does that mean? I don't get what так means.
thanks

It means, "He never met him", "They never met". Alas, it's hard to translate the sentence into English in some another way.
"Так и не..." means that something was planned to happen, or someone wanted very much it to happen, but the event never happened anyway. "Так и не..." has a slight nuance of disappointment.[/quote:3mbfykhg]

+1 Sth that failed to happen. I.e. their meeting failed, and he never met him.
And the whole construction is "так и не".