Быть в эмиграции - does this always refer to exile or can it sometimes mean something else?
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Быть в эмиграции - does this always refer to exile or can it sometimes mean something else?
в эмиграции (without н)
No, быть в эмиграции means to have a permanent residence in some foreign country. And I think it is not possible to exile a person to a foreign country since the foreign country will probably object :)
Well, perhaps the prhase was used to refer to people who moved out of Russia for that they thought they might do better in other country, but no one actually exiled them.
Unfortunately it is possible, for example when a border within a country or between two countries has been modified.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisces
Of course, people in exile in the United States would indeed have taken up a permanent residence here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Мултитран.ру
Then I misunderstood the concept of being in exile (I thougt it could be only by force), so if one can live in exile on his own accord, the translation is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMage
I only tried to tell that эмиграция is when one leaves the country because would like to do so, not because he is forced to.
And my Lingvo says that "in exile" is "в ссылке", and all the translations it offers for "exile" describe forced deportation from the country.
But I can't argue, I am not an expert in English.
You did not misunderstand it. Living in exile in the context of emigration is usually an unwilling absence from a home country. It does not necessarily mean that you were physically sent to another country, but that you had to leave on the basis of, let's say, being afraid of political prosecution. Of course, the government can only send you to where it has the power to send you. Whichever way you get to that other country you become a refugee (беженец). I would not say I live in exile, since I have both Russian and Canadian citizenships and I am free to go wherever I want. However, to Russians I am an emigrant, since I choose to live here.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisces
The origin of the word is Latin exilium (banishment)
I bet you are very young... A lot of people including famous musicians, film directors, etc. were forced to emigrate and lived in exile. "Forced" did not necessarilly meant they were physically put on a plane, but rather they were put into conditions where they had very little choice... However, in some cases they were ordered to live the country or face prosecution...Quote:
Originally Posted by pisces
Check the biographies of Иосиф Бродский and Андрей Тарковский for example... Here is one link http://www.polit.ru/culture/2004/03/14/brodsky1.html
And of course there is modern day exile for people like Berezovsky...
I came across the term while reading about Brodskij, but then I saw it in another context and I was confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM
I think that what it turned out to be was a situation where the person left the USSR because of political pressure, resulting in a sort of de facto exile, rather than a forcefully imposed one.
People sent in exile by the CCCP, or live in exile because of the CCCP, don't do so anymore, because the CCCP doesn't exist. They don't live in exile.
i don't know if Abromovich can me considered as an exile... he will surely be arrested if he returns to Russia...
You mean Berezovsky.
I think you could class him as an exile. He has been granted asylum in a foreign country afterall, and self-imposed exile is still exile. There's nothing in the word (at least in English) that requires a person to have been physically ejected from their homeland.
No, I meant Abromovich, "Chelski". As far as I know, he is also in a self-imposed exile...
No he's not. He's just been re-appointed Governor of Chukotka.
Yeah.. By the way, he sold his Sibneft to Gazprom without any problems a couple of months ago..Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich
He's the 21st richest person on the world, "referred to as one of the Russian oligarchs." Somehow it seems to me that they can't afford to exile him. Really, if someone that rich wants to spend his money inside Russia's borders, it's purely bad business to turn him down.
If the exile is indeed self-imposed, then it's not much of an exile. :roll:
Excuse me, what do you mean? Do you think 'they' want to exile him but they can't do this? I'm not sure.. I think, beside Berezovskiy, Khodorkovskiy etc. Abramovich plays fair.. Of course, as far as it's possible in Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMage
Abrаmovich to be precise. From the Jewish name "Abram".Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich
Well, it looks like this language thread has successfuly turned into political one :)
Never mind the rolling eyes, you halfwit.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webster's Dictionary
Damn it, Scotcher, you should know by now that posting ill-contrived arguments is my forte! Jesus, I'm an American, it's what we do!
:o I am in exile!!!
From where? and why?
I am a Norwegian living in the US, I fall under:
Self-imposed absence from one's country. == EXILE
Why did you leave?
Yep, I am also in exile!!
DDT: We have an equal amount of posts, the battle for third place is on. We are still a little more than half way to Pravit and Dogboy though.
BlackMage: Study then work. It happens. я в эмиграции
Is this what the Russians call it though?Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
For me exile=изгнание. Since I left voluntarily and not under pressure I never say "я в изгнании". Я говорю я в эмиграции или я эмигрант...Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMage
So when they say (about Brodskij) С 1972 живёт в эмиграции в США this does not imply he was exiled?
Really? There must be some one else left.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
In my view it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMage
I agree with Mike. I don't think that the Soviet gorvenment used to send people into exile in the 1970s. Even Jews.
It's getting confusing. My comment was about the meaning of the particular phrase. I didn't give my opinion on whether he was in exile or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReDSanchous
However if you ask my opinion, Brodsky was definitely in exile although one can say his exile was self-imposed. He was simply put into conditions where he didn't have much choice (http://www.litera.ru/stixiya/articles/21.html).
Quoted from Wikipedia, further:Quote:
For his parasitism Brodsky was sentenced to five years of internal exile with obligatory engagement in physical work and served 18 months in Archangelsk region. The sentence was commuted in 1965 after prominent Soviet and foreign literary figures, such as Evgeny Evtushenko and Jean Paul Sartre, protested.
Quote:
On June 4, 1972 Brodsky was exiled from the USSR and became a U.S. citizen in 1980.
There is a big problem with these words that travel from one language to another. Even native speakers can use the same word slightly differently and disagree on the correct use of the word. In my opinion, historically, эмигрант is perceived in Russia as someone who left the country for good and possibly is in conflict with the government. It would not be an enormous exaggeration to say that they are viewed as traitors to some degree, rats who left the ship etc.