Thread: Why do you think the order of cases changes?

In most, if not all, of the Russian grammar books written for native English speakers, the cases are in this order:
Nominative
Accusative
Genitive
Prepositional
Dative
Instrumental

But when my Russian teacher shows me her Russian grammar book (written for native Russian speakers), the case order changes to the following:
Nominative
Genitive
Dative
Accusative
Instrumental
Prepositional


Does anyone know why this is? At first I thought it was by order of difficulty, but now I'm not so sure. Then I thought for about 2 seconds that maybe it was because it made a better acronym to remember (NAGPDI) haha, but who in the world remembers declension that way? Maybe it's just by order of what you need to know before going on to the next case. (E.g. I need to understand to decline nouns in the accusative case before I begin setting up certain sentences that use the genitive.) Either way, this is kinda irritating because when a book shows a word declined (?) for every case, it's hard to compare notes.

Anyway ideas why this is? Has anyone else noticed this? been irritated as well? found a textbook that doesn't do this? If this topic has been cover before, please forgive me.

This topic has already been discussed and we went through a bunch of explanations. I would say there's no special rule about the order of the cases. Some books will say it's easier to learn in this order while others will try to respect or follow the syntax of the language you use to learn Russian.

I don't think there's any mnemonic way to remember the declension rules, simply learn them until you master them.

You learn them in order of their essentiality.

The "traditional" order (Nom., Gen., Dat. etc) is a continuation of the ancient Latin grammars. (I am not sure about ancient Greek, since I never studied it)

In Latin, the cases went in the following order: Nominative, Genetive, Dative, Accusative, Ablative, Vocative.

This tradition is continued in grammars of many other languages, e.g. Russian (as we know) and German. If you take any German texbok written by a German for Germans, the four cases will be presented in the traditional order (Nom., Gen., Dat., Acc.).

However, when you start learning a foreign language, you normally need Acc. sooner that you need Gen.

Whatever language you take, sentences like "I see a book" normally occur earlier in the textbooks than sentences like "This is Jane's book".

I guess this may be the reason why some foreign textbook author present cases in a different order.

I'm comfortable with the order NAGDIP. In order of frequency.

its because everything is преображая.

Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru

The "traditional" order (Nom., Gen., Dat. etc) is a continuation of the ancient Latin grammars. (I am not sure about ancient Greek, since I never studied it)

In Latin, the cases went in the following order: Nominative, Genetive, Dative, Accusative, Ablative, Vocative.

That as well must then depend on where you are/what school you are in.

We learned the Latin cases in the order: Nominative, Accusative, Genetive, Dative, Ablative, Vocative.



Maybe there is no such thing as "the correct order" - after all, they all have to be learnt....


BY

Originally Posted by BabaYaga

Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru

The "traditional" order (Nom., Gen., Dat. etc) is a continuation of the ancient Latin grammars. (I am not sure about ancient Greek, since I never studied it)

In Latin, the cases went in the following order: Nominative, Genetive, Dative, Accusative, Ablative, Vocative.

That as well must then depend on where you are/what school you are in.

We learned the Latin cases in the order: Nominative, Accusative, Genetive, Dative, Ablative, Vocative.

I bet you used MODERN grammars, i.e. written by modern writers for use in modern schools. I was talking about oldest surviving grammars - that is where the tradition comes from.

Originally Posted by translations.nm.ru

I bet you used MODERN grammars, i.e. written by modern writers for use in modern schools. I was talking about oldest surviving grammars - that is where the tradition comes from.

That's possible, I didn't know that - interesting.

I think the hardest thing is probably switching the order around once you have gotten used to one of them - for Russian (as for German) I find if I don't stick to my old Latin school system I tend to mess the whole thing up...

But then, that may be due to my decrepit brain cells....


BY

I think its good if students get messed about with two different orders. Maybe it will make them learn which ending goes with which fucking case.

Originally Posted by TATY

I think its good if students get messed about with two different orders. Maybe it will make them learn which ending goes with which @@@@ case.

TATY my dear, I fully agree.








Thankfully, it's a @@@@ long time since I was a student, so, personally, I'm free to learn the @@@@ cases in whatever @@@@ order I like.

I @@@@@ and @@@@@ @@@@ with @@@@@ !!! I cant just @@@@@ believe this @@@@@@@@ @@@@. God... @@@@@@@@@