Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: Whether to send a preposition through time or not...

  1. #1
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    83
    Rep Power
    5

    Whether to send a preposition through time or not...

    Hi there,

    I'm wondering when to use "в" when expressing time the following way:
    (in the sense of: "at XX:XX, they do..." - not "it's XX:XX o'clock now")

    7:20
    solutions of mine:
    1. в семь часов и двадцать минут ...
    2. в двадцать минут восьмого...

    I can remember to have heard of a "30-minute-mark" (31, actually...), where you go with "без" and omit "в":

    7:40 - без двадцати восемь
    (without "без": 7:40 - в семь часов и сорок минут ...?)

    The reason I'm curious is the fact that in one of the books that I'm using, they're not using "в" in the following case:
    6:22 - Двадцать две минуты седьмого она вернётся ...

    Where did the preposition go?
    (In other sentences, they DO use "в" for instances until the 31st minute: В четверть десятого ...)
    Error in my book?

  2. #2
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    865
    Rep Power
    26
    When you just want to inform about the current time, you do not need "в":

    7:40 Сейчас без двадцати восемь. Сейчас семь сорок.
    7:20 Сейчас двадцать минут восьмого. Сейчас семь двадцать.

    The second versions seem simpler and they are frequently used along with the first (traditional) versions.
    Antonio1986 likes this.

  3. #3
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    865
    Rep Power
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cumulus View Post
    6:22 - Двадцать две минуты седьмого она вернётся ...

    Where did the preposition go?
    (In other sentences, they DO use "в" for instances until the 31st minute: В четверть десятого ...)
    Error in my book?
    When answering "когда?" there has to be a preposition, of course:

    7:20 Она вернётся в семь двадцать (в двадцать минут восьмого).
    7:40 Она вернётся в семь сорок (без двадцати восемь).

    As to your example ( Двадцать две минуты седьмого она вернётся ) I think it is incorrect. There are two possibilites:
    1) There was a preposition in the sound recording, but you failed to hear it due to some reason.
    2) In colloquial speech some people can say like that, but in fact there is an ellipsis (the full sentence should be in this case: [когда будет] двадцать две минуты седьмого, она вернётся).
    Antonio1986 likes this.

  4. #4
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    83
    Rep Power
    5
    Aight, thx.

    It's still weird that they switch the way of telling a story. It's about how some people spend their time. The narrator in the book is like:
    At 6:15, they do X, at 9:23, they do Y. Most of the time, they were using "в" for anything up to the 31st min. (excl. 31). The only exception was the 6:22 case, where they just omitted "в".

    Based on your explanation, it must be like. "At 2:14, they go to the club (using "в"). It's 6:22 now, time to return home...(excluding "в")."
    Or they just screwed up the grammar here...

    Well, I wish I were wrong w/ my hearing. But it's actually a written story in the book.

  5. #5
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    865
    Rep Power
    26
    Is it a written text? I thought it was an audio.

  6. #6
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    83
    Rep Power
    5
    Nope, written. I'd have led myself into the belief that there must be a preposition in case of a recording. But yeah, it's all written stuff.

    Anyway, I think they're wrong.
    I'd have said "В двадцать две минуты седьмого она вернётся ..."

  7. #7
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Siberia, the Earth
    Posts
    1,176
    Rep Power
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Cumulus View Post
    Nope, written. I'd have led myself in to the belief that there must be a preposition in case of a recording. But yeah, it's all written stuff.

    Anyway, I think they're wrong.
    I'd have said "В двадцать две минуты седьмого она вернётся ..."
    And would be right
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  8. #8
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    865
    Rep Power
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cumulus View Post
    Nope, written.
    Then most likely it is a typo.

  9. #9
    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Omsk, Russia
    Posts
    1,543
    Rep Power
    25
    It is unlikely you ever hear "В двадцать две минуты восьмого" in real life. But it is correct. Exact time only matters if you are train engineer
    Поезд отправляется в девятнадцать сорок три (19hr43mi)
    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

  10. #10
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,340
    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман View Post
    As to your example ( Двадцать две минуты седьмого она вернётся ) I think it is incorrect. There are two possibilites:
    You are wrong. Это случилось пять минут восьмого. - That's a correct and normal sentence.

  11. #11
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Siberia, the Earth
    Posts
    1,176
    Rep Power
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    You are wrong. Это случилось пять минут восьмого. - That's a correct and normal sentence.
    Really? Where do they do that at?
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  12. #12
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    СССР -> США
    Posts
    17,636
    Rep Power
    32
    Давайте-ка не запутывать наших учащихся. Думаю, что подобные споры не помогают.

    Да, это случилось пять минут назад, двадцать минут второго.
    Фильм начался в семь часов.
    Она вернётся через двадцать минут.
    Она обычно возвращается с работы в шесть часов вечера.
    В два часа дня она уже будет дома.

  13. #13
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    83
    Rep Power
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    Давайте-ка не запутывать наших учащихся. Думаю, что подобные споры не помогают. Я вообще потеряла нить, о чём речь.
    Да, это случилось пять минут назад, двадцать минут второго.
    Yeah, but there is an indication that sounds credible enough to omit "в", which is "это случилось пять минут назад, ...".

    The only way of translating the initial sentence without "в" would be
    "It's 6:22 now, she's gonna return ..." or something along those lines "Come 6:22, she's gonna return..."

    Interesting!

  14. #14
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Siberia, the Earth
    Posts
    1,176
    Rep Power
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    Давайте-ка не запутывать наших учащихся. Думаю, что подобные споры не помогают.

    Да, это случилось пять минут назад, двадцать минут второго.
    Фильм начался в семь часов.
    Она вернётся через двадцать минут.
    Она обычно возвращается с работы в шесть часов вечера.
    В два часа дня она уже будет дома.
    I don't want to confuse anyone. I'm just really interested in why Marcus thinks that "Это случилось пять минут восьмого" is a normal phrase. For me it sounds just completely wrong, I've never heard anybody speaking like that in my life. Although, the в preposition is really quick there and therefore might went unnoticed, as for now it's the only possible explanation why Marcus thinks like that.

    Also:

    Да, это случилось пять минут назад, двадцать минут второго.

    Even this phrase looks incorrect to me, in my opinion it should be:

    Да, это случилось пять минут назад в двадцать минут второго

    It's just when you say that something happens, happened at a particular "watch" time, you have to use в before the "watch time" expression.

    Also, given the Marcus logic we can easily deduce that it should be okay to say:

    Это случилось пять instead of
    Это случилось в пять.

    Seriously, what the hell is

    Это случилось пять?
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  15. #15
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    СССР -> США
    Posts
    17,636
    Rep Power
    32
    Я думаю, что правильно и так, и так. В зависимости от вопроса, нет?
    Когда это случилось? Это случилось двадцать минут второго.
    В котором часу это случилось? Это случилось в двадцать минут второго.

  16. #16
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Siberia, the Earth
    Posts
    1,176
    Rep Power
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    Я думаю, что правильно и так, и так. В зависимости от вопроса, нет?
    Когда это случилось? Это случилось двадцать минут второго.
    В котором часу это случилось? Это случилось в двадцать минут второго.
    Yeah, what about this then?:

    Это случилось когда? - Это случилось два.

    As I said, I don't think it's possible to define time when something happened, happens or will happen without using any preposition or adverb.

    Look here:

    Это случилось пять минут назад - not это случилось пять минут
    Это случилось в пять - not это случилось пять
    Это случится через пять минут - not это случится пять минут.

    Anyway, let's see what our grammar people have to say. It's a really interesting and intriguing question for me right now.
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  17. #17
    Почётный участник
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    83
    Rep Power
    5
    I'll try to keep an eye on that. Being a student refreshing his Russian skills, I'll go with "в" for now.

    The lack of "в" appears to be some reluctance in "spoken language", I guess?

    Looks like I got some people more than what was being bargained for.

  18. #18
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,340
    Rep Power
    10
    Без указания числа минут "в" опускать нельзя, с этим я не спорю.
    Lampada likes this.

  19. #19
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Siberia, the Earth
    Posts
    1,176
    Rep Power
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Без указания числа минут "в" опускать нельзя, с этим я не спорю.
    And I say you can't omit "a prepositon or adverb" in any case if you define when something happens, happened or will happen.

    Это случилось в пять часов двадцать минут - not это случилось пять часов двадцать минут.

    And, please, look at these two phrases:

    Это происходило пять часов двадцать минут.
    Это происходило в пять часов двадцать минут.

    Don't you think they differ in their meanings? yes, of course they do, but if we follow your logic

    Это происходило пять часов двадцать минут - should mean "it was happening at 5:20" but it doesn't mean that, does it?
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  20. #20
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    СССР -> США
    Posts
    17,636
    Rep Power
    32
    Как правильно говорить о времени и датах по-английски

    "Для указания времени после половины часа употребляется предлог to (до):
    • at a quarter to 3 - в без четверти 3 (букв. в четверть до трех)
    • at 22 minutes to 3 - в без двадцати двух минут три (букв. в 22 минуты до трех)"



    Всё, везде будем вставлять "в"!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Looking for someone to chat to from time to time. ME(Dutch, FRen, SPanish, EN, German
    By antwerpsupporter in forum Penpals and Language Exchange
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: September 15th, 2012, 06:08 PM
  2. Preposition 'а'
    By renataf in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 12th, 2011, 11:47 AM
  3. Preposition help
    By DobeyMan in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 21st, 2006, 03:43 PM
  4. Which preposition?
    By pranki in forum Learn English - Грамматика, переводы, словарный запас
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: June 7th, 2005, 09:43 AM
  5. Preposition
    By Tu-160 in forum Learn English - Грамматика, переводы, словарный запас
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: July 15th, 2003, 05:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary