Thread: Verb Case Government/ Requirements

A concept in Russian is really confusing me, that is, when a verb, such as Быть requires the use of (Instrumental), does this mean that you CAN NOT use another case with this verb?

Are there verbs which can be used with different cases, and this changes the semantic meaning?

And for any verb + noun,adjective, etc. Is the prepositional case always an option, because one can always throw in a На, О, В after the verb?

Let me give an example: One of the meanings given to the verb Находить: Come (over На+Acc case): Could anyone provide me an example where this would apply? I am not sure what the dictionary means here.

In short, Verbs govern cases, but when, where, how, and why? Are these case governments OPTIONIAL?

Every verb could be combined with many cases, may be even with all 6, but theses "usages" vary in a semantical sense. As we say , "they answer different questions".
For example, Находить+игрок
Genitive Находить у игрока (недостатки)
Dative Находить к игроку (подход)
Accusative Находить игрока (в пивном баре)
Instrumental Находить с игроком (контакт)
Prepositional Находить об игроке (информацию)
I'd say, every verb is to be combined with specific set of prepositions, and chosen prepositions often dictate the case of the noun that follows.

Is the prepositional case always an option, because one can always throw in a На, О, В after the verb?

Yes, it seems so, though in many cases noun-in-prepositional should not be tightly bound to the verb. For example
Я бросал в лесу окурки
in languages with stricter word ordering could be
Я бросал окурки в лесу,
and then we can say that бросал governs окурки, not лес (that is, accusative as expected).
So yes, if an action is taking place somewhere, we can always specify "where exactly".

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Every verb could be combined with many cases, may be even with all 6, but theses "usages" vary in a semantical sense.

One should distinguish between verb arguments and sentence adjuncts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argume...s_and_adjuncts

The government is applied to arguments while adjuncts can be in different cases.

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Genitive Находить у игрока (недостатки)
Dative Находить к игроку (подход)
Accusative Находить игрока (в пивном баре)
Instrumental Находить с игроком (контакт)
Prepositional Находить об игроке (информацию)

(Arguments marked red, adjuncts marked blue)

Originally Posted by Gottimhimmel

One of the meanings given to the verb Находить: Come (over На+Acc case): Could anyone provide me an example where this would apply? I am not sure what the dictionary means here.

Maybe out of context, but I will describe different forms of "находить" and their relations.
"Находить" can be disassembled as "на-" prefix (over, atop, from above) and root "ходить" (to walk, to go). So it's meaning is something like "to be in moving state and step on something/meet something". For example "волна находит на берег" (wave hit shore).
However this has created new meaning "to find something" because "you walk and accidently step on coin". It is new meaning and prefix has melted with root and new solid word was born "находить" as "to find".
At the same time "находить" in the first meaning "to walk on/over/atop something" with self-action (return-action) particle "-ся" that is "находиться" is "to walk on/over some location (not leaving it)", so it become "to be located on/in". For example "он хочет находиться в удобном номере гостиницы".
So, it is can vary in meaning between different forms as come, find, to be located and more.

Originally Posted by Alex80

At the same time "находить" in the first meaning "to walk on/over/atop something" with self-action (return-action) particle "-ся" that is "находиться" is "to walk on/over some location (not leaving it)", so it become "to be located on/in".

I believe, it was the second meaning (“to find”) that the word находиться “to be located” was formed from. The suffix -ся marks passive here. «Что-то находится где-то» — (literally) “Something can be found somewhere” — “Something is located somewhere”.

Moreover, находиться is most likely a calque of German sich befinden “to be located” (lit. “to find oneself”).

Originally Posted by Soft sign

I believe, it was the second meaning (“to find”) that the word находиться “to be located” was formed from.

I agree. Meanings are melted and after thinking I agree that "located"-form is derived from "find"-form.