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Thread: USA government gone rogue (well... not exactly. L.)

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    DDT
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    USA government gone rogue (well... not exactly. L.)

    A lot of Americans are aware that the USA government has gone rogue and that it is lying to the people. These posters are appearing in the military as they did also when Obama tried to take America to war over Syria. When Obama lied to Americans about Assad and Syria and tried to get us to bomb them, soldiers put these type of photos all over the Internet.

    crimea.jpg
    Many Americans will not get involved in Russia's affairs!
    Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself. - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

  2. #2
    Hanna
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    I think that's been creeping up since WW2 after which no trick was dirty enough in the fight against communism.

    Then after the Cold War the US came out as some kind of "moral" winner (undeserved, I can see, now + 'the victor writes the history' hence thousands of books and documentaries blackpainting ever aspect of the USSR).

    The US became convinced that anything it said or did was moral.... Only problem, the US government was and is a puppet of big business and the super rich! Everything it did was driven by the interests of those two groups.

    Another thing that happened in the 1990s was the commercialisation of media across Europe and other places. So everyone could be told the American version of world events without any challenge. It started in the first Iraq war and it's escalated ever since. Before that the actions of the USA were critically challenged in European press - but this is now reserved for Russia while the US gets a free pass.

    China isn't interested in going up against the USA and Russia has checked out and cares only about its on geopolitical area. EU isn't capable or interested, meaning free reign of terror for the USA. Nothing is outrageous enough, murdering or spying on completely innocent citizens of other countries just the beginning.

    Yes - you are right that it is rogue.

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    ... Nothing is outrageous enough, murdering or spying on completely innocent citizens of other countries just the beginning. Yes - you are right that it is rogue.
    И самолёт специально не находят, чтобы только его на всех каналах обсуждать 24/7.
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



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    Почтенный гражданин UhOhXplode's Avatar
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    The US media is very anti-Russia and the Russian media is very anti-US but at least the Russian media has more information. Mostly I quit reading the US media because:
    1. They make serious claims that they never support with facts.
    2. They never provide very many (if any) facts.
    3. They read like a political campaign.
    4. The articles are full of weird and pointless threats.

    Seriously, I can get more information in one paragraph of a Russian article than I can from 10 whole US articles.
    @ DDT: Are you a DDT fan? They made a lot of cool music. Anyway, you're right. I've seen lies in the US media recently and what's worse is they're obvious lies. There's been a lot of serious omissions too. I saw nothing in the Western media about the earlier protests in Donetsk, Luhansk, or Kharkiv and I saw nothing about pro-Russians being arrested.
    After reading a lot of Western media, I thought Ukraine was completely peaceful now with no issues of any kind. I didn't discover how wrong I was till I switched back to the Russian media.

    Edit: From the International Business Times - About the US mercenaries acting in eastern Ukraine:
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russia-warn...naries-1443795
    Лучше смерть, чем бесчестие! Тем временем: Вечно молодой, Вечно пьяный. - Смысловые Галлюцинации, Чартова дюжина 2015!
    Пожалуйста, исправьте мои ошибки. Спасибо.

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    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UhOhXplode View Post
    Edit: From the International Business Times - About the US mercenaries acting in eastern Ukraine:
    Russia Warns Ukraine against Military Build-up 'Backed by US Mercenaries'
    Well, it is NOT "About the US mercenaries acting in eastern Ukraine" actually - it is about some statements from Moscow.

    After reading a lot of Western media, I thought Ukraine was completely peaceful now with no issues of any kind. I didn't discover how wrong I was till I switched back to the Russian media.
    Russian media for the westerners is a baby talk in comparison to Russian media for Russians. You should learn Russian and watch Russian TV - any channel. That is the way to gain knowledge about Ukraine you can't get anywhere else. An hour of hatred watching Russian TV and you will be ready to kill us with a flamethrower. That is a rich experience to enjoy and to discover hidden sides of your soul. Strongly recommended.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Почтенный гражданин UhOhXplode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by it-ogo View Post
    Well, it is NOT "About the US mercenaries acting in eastern Ukraine" actually - it is about some statements from Moscow.

    That's why I posted the link without making any serious comments. There's no absolute proof that they are hired mercenaries yet.

    Russian media for the westerners is a baby talk in comparison to Russian media for Russians. You should learn Russian and watch Russian TV - any channel. That is the way to gain knowledge about Ukraine you can't get anywhere else. An hour of hatred watching Russian TV and you will be ready to kill us with a flamethrower. That is a rich experience to enjoy and to discover hidden sides of your soul. Strongly recommended.
    It's not easy to know when I'm reading "baby talk" or hardcore stories. The Russian media sources I use are Комсомо́льская пра́вда, Российская газета, Аргументы и факты, and Красная звезда.
    And yeah, I wanna know more but I'm still learning Russian grammar and sentence structure. I learn a lot of Russian here and from Alex at another site (he was born in Moscow and lived there for 25 years). I have so many other subjects I have to study till summer but I still find some free time every day to study some Russian too. I'll have a lot more time this summer.
    I do watch some Russian TV, Russian movies, and other Russian videos. I watch them to see how many words I recognize and sometimes I hear phrases I understand.
    But when I read news or watch it on TV, I try to ignore everything but the facts because I only wanna know what's happening.
    I don't have any reason to hate Ukrainians or Russians and I hope that the Ukrainian government will find a way to make all the Ukrainian people happy. I know that won't be easy with an Austerity program but I believe it can be done.
    Maybe a crisis like that will happen someday in the US. Until that happens, I don't believe anyone here will ever really understand it or how it feels to be caught up in it. All I can really understand is the facts (the ones that are proven).
    Lampada likes this.
    Лучше смерть, чем бесчестие! Тем временем: Вечно молодой, Вечно пьяный. - Смысловые Галлюцинации, Чартова дюжина 2015!
    Пожалуйста, исправьте мои ошибки. Спасибо.

  7. #7
    Paul G.
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    I don't understand why you need Media. Watch and listen to the direct sources. Like this one, for example:


  8. #8
    Властелин
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDT View Post
    crimea.jpg
    Many Americans will not get involved in Russia's affairs!
    "When the came for liberals, I didn't care - I was no liberal; when they came for trade unionists, I didn't care - I was no trade unionist; when they came for Jews, I didn't care - I was no Jew; when they came for me, there was no one left to stand against them.".
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    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    I write this as a former US marine, 0341, 1st battalion, 6th marines, 2nd Mar Div, 85-88. I am ashamed that this is what my country has come to especially after what the people of that region did for all of us in WW2 (26 million deaths fighting against the nazi's) and all the suffering they have endured since.
    Feel free to cut and paste the below section to help get the word out on this hypocrisy:

    Graphic warning: Pictures of elderly women and pensioners burned alive in Odessa government building fire. The youth who threw the molotov cocktails at them are supported fully by the United States.
    #ИСТО
    The next video show Right Sector pro nazi extremists financed and backed by Barack Obama and the US government hacking a mans leg off in the street. Graphic warning. The hacking takes place at the 9:10 mark in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVejqaNXzYE
    The next video shows 24 minutes of consecutive footage from the time the building was under siege. Shaky camera warning. You will notice that not a single molotov cocktail comes from the building as the press is reporting, while instead many molotovs are thrown into the building by the violent youth that have trapped the people inside.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVXm...has_verified=1
    The next video is 16 consecutive minutes of the building under siege. Numerous moltov cocktails are thrown from the violent youth out front. Not a single molotov comes from the building as the press in Kiev and the West (including the Guardian UK) is reporting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?
    v=6jwvRGfxApM#t=720
    The above video does show the Pro separatist shooter on a shop roof who appears to be possibly the person who the Right Sector later hacks the leg off of. The shooter had previously been apprehended by the police but it appears from other videos that they let the neo-nazi's have him, at which point they then hack away at his leg.
    The next link is to a Washington based article highlighting how the US is now providing additional financing to the new Kiev government and media which yesterday blamed the deaths of the people who were killed inside the building on....get this....themselves.
    USAID beefs support for Ukrainian media amid fresh military clashes in the east - Washington Times
    And here's what Washington is paying that media money for. The Kiev post is reporting that the people burned themselves alive instead of blaming the pro nazi's that the new coup government is made up of.
    https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukr...os-346066.html
    Headline at link: Police say pro-Russians accidentally set fatal Odessa fire with Molotov cocktails (LIVE UPDATES, VIDEO)
    The next link is to a Facebook page of one of the young girls who was filmed preparing the molotov cocktails that burned the elderly people alive. The first pic on her page has her performing a sieg heil nazi salute in front of an iron eagle. https://www.facebook.com/mykolasalutis
    These are the types of people President Obama is supporting with US tax dollars while he has a jokes around and has a laugh at President Putin at the press correspondents dinner.
    The next couple of video's clearly show the neo-nazi youth burning the building and throwing all of the molotov cocktails that set the building alight. Once again, not a single molotov comes from inside the building or from the roof of the building.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AMjLBIliw
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BEpOT6_nOU
    The next link clearly shows the young girls making the molotovs that are to be used to burn the people alive.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qtKjP7eOlI
    RT has covered all of this in full yet the US media who are attending the correspondents dinner and laughing along with Obama's jokes have neglected to cover almost all of these factors and have instead opted to declare that "both sides" were throwing molotov cocktails.
    Odessa slaughter: How vicious mob burnt anti-govt activists alive (GRAPHIC IMAGES) — RT News
    The above links prove 'well beyond a reasonable doubt' that all molotovs were thrown by the neo-nazi youth. It is incredibly sad what my country, the USA, has fomented in Ukraine and all Americans should be enraged about it. We are supporting right wing neo-nazi murderers and our ridiculous president (who I sadly voted for) is making jokes about it while they have just burned people alive and hacked off legs.
    The next link is to a presentation from Noam Chomsky (one of America's most profound liberal scholars) who sums up the US's hypocrisy in the Ukraine crisis.
    Noam Chomsky | Red Lines in Ukraine and Elsewhere
    and this: Yes, There Are Bad Guys in the Ukrainian Government
    P.S. Лампада, ты можешь удалить этот пост, можешь закрыть тему - дело твоё. Я тогда просто уйду с форума. Потому что не могу рассуждать тут о падежах, склонениях и русской культуре, в то самое время, когда США руками ополоумевших укронацистов осуществляет геноцид моих соотечественников при радостной поддержке "цивилизованной Европы".
    iCake and UhOhXplode like this.
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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil77 View Post
    P.S. Лампада, ты можешь удалить этот пост, можешь закрыть тему - дело твоё. Я тогда просто уйду с форума. Потому что не могу рассуждать тут о падежах, склонениях и русской культуре, в то самое время, когда США руками ополоумевших укронацистов осуществляет геноцид моих соотечественников при радостной поддержке "цивилизованной Европы".
    Да, притащить на форум Masterrussian все эти ужасные преступления против невинных людей - прекрасный вклад в дело помощи студентам русского языка. ( )
    А теперь ты можешь спокойно рассуждать "о падежах, склонениях и русской культуре"?
    Пожалуйста, рассуждай.
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



  11. #11
    Hanna
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    Has the topic of Ukraine been banned from the forum?

    What went wrong? I felt the majority (with my usual reservation regarding two obvious provocateurs), were respectful.

    Strong feelings from some are understandable if a person feels attacked or is affected in some other way, isn't it?

    Maybe something was said in Russian that I did not understand.

    I learnt essentially all there is to learn about the background and motivation of all the sides just in time before the threads were locked, and my questions were answered.
    So I am ok with it - but it seemed very abrupt and I did not understand what the motivation was for suddenly locking all three threads. Perhaps look at bannning people instead?

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    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    Да, притащить на форум Masterrussian все эти ужасные преступления против невинных людей - прекрасный вклад в дело помощи студентам русского языка. ( )
    Если бы в зарубежных СМИ эта трагедия объективно освещалась, я бы ничего сюда не тащил. Я считаю, что студенты, изучающие русский язык, должны знать точку зрения людей, живущих в России, на эти события. Нельзя жить как страус, засунув голову в песок, и делать вид, что нас это не касается.
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    Почтенный гражданин UhOhXplode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil77 View Post
    Если бы в зарубежных СМИ эта трагедия объективно освещалась, я бы ничего сюда не тащил. Я считаю, что студенты, изучающие русский язык, должны знать точку зрения людей, живущих в России, на эти события. Нельзя жить как страус, засунув голову в песок, и делать вид, что нас это не касается.
    I think it's important to spend more time learning the Russian language and the culture but you have a good point. The threads were very disturbing but they were a very valuable lesson about Russian people and I'm very happy about everything I had the chance to learn. Now I can learn more about Russian verbs and I know a lot more about the people I'll be talking to.
    Лучше смерть, чем бесчестие! Тем временем: Вечно молодой, Вечно пьяный. - Смысловые Галлюцинации, Чартова дюжина 2015!
    Пожалуйста, исправьте мои ошибки. Спасибо.

  14. #14
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil77 View Post
    Если бы в зарубежных СМИ эта трагедия объективно освещалась, я бы ничего сюда не тащил. Я считаю, что студенты, изучающие русский язык, должны знать точку зрения людей, живущих в России, на эти события. Нельзя жить как страус, засунув голову в песок, и делать вид, что нас это не касается.
    The biggest employer of people with skills in Russian in the USA is the CIA.
    (Followed by the Military, I imagine.) Wouldn't want the future employees of the CIA to have their indoctrination challenged in case they should find their way here, now, would we?
    Let them "learn" about Russian politics at Radio Liberty!

    Quote Originally Posted by UhOhXplode
    Now I can learn more about Russian verbs and I know a lot more about the people I'll be talking to.
    What got into you, I thought you enjoyed the political forum and the debate? Well good luck with the verbs....

    I have picked up my Russian language studies and yes, sure the Political Forum is a huge distraction. But to be honest the way the world is moving lately, the political aspect has become one of the reasons I want to learn Russian.

    Didn't expect it, but my re-awakened interest in Russian language and culture after a 15 year hiatus happened to co-incide with plenty of political and international events where I find myself sympathising much more with the values Russia stands for, than the Western ones.

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    Почтенный гражданин UhOhXplode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    What got into you, I thought you enjoyed the political forum and the debate? Well good luck with the verbs....

    I have picked up my Russian language studies and yes, sure the Political Forum is a huge distraction. But to be honest the way the world is moving lately, the political aspect has become one of the reasons I want to learn Russian.

    Didn't expect it, but my re-awakened interest in Russian language and culture after a 15 year hiatus happened to co-incide with plenty of political and international events where I find myself sympathising much more with the values Russia stands for, than the Western ones.
    What got into me is 2 more weeks with lots of exams. I'll still be reading current events threads but I won't have much free time to join in till after May 23rd. And I totally do agree. All the Russia bashing and lies in the Western media totally is unnecessary and counterproductive. There's just so many cool things I see in Russia that I never see here.
    Лучше смерть, чем бесчестие! Тем временем: Вечно молодой, Вечно пьяный. - Смысловые Галлюцинации, Чартова дюжина 2015!
    Пожалуйста, исправьте мои ошибки. Спасибо.

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    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Meanwhile: Joe Biden's son became one of the directors of the lagest Ukrainian gas-producing company:

    Hunter Biden joins the team of Burisma Holdings | Burisma
    Hanna likes this.
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

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    Увлечённый спикер bytemare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDT View Post
    A lot of Americans are aware that the USA government has gone rogue and that it is lying to the people. These posters are appearing in the military as they did also when Obama tried to take America to war over Syria. When Obama lied to Americans about Assad and Syria and tried to get us to bomb them, soldiers put these type of photos all over the Internet.

    crimea.jpg
    Many Americans will not get involved in Russia's affairs!
    I like puppies. Some people don't. Some people don't eat their vegetables. But some people say they are good for you. Elvis is alive. A lot of people say America never went to the moon. hi.

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    Почтенный гражданин 14Russian's Avatar
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    There are no good sides. Soon as Ukrainians realize this, the better. You can't just choose a side and that seems what is happening. Putin's puppet Yanukovych was like either leader (whether on the EU side or Putin side).

    It is laughable the amount of sugarcoating from those pro-Putin on this site. The anti-American/anti-EU rhetoric is find and dandy but then so many are defending the Putin positions. Yet, this is what Putin supported:

    Awsome video of former Ukrainian president Yanukovych empty luxury estate. - YouTube

    This is what the 'legitimate' leader in Ukraine was doing. I wonder why poverty-stricken Ukrainians wanted to change the system so badly. Oooh, what reasons could there be?!? It's just that the Western Elites recognized this opportunity to manipulate things but Putin's murder of Ukrainians is as bad. But, no one talks about that here. He is supporting military in Ukraine trying to overpower authorities to split the country so that is better than Western influence, I guess.

    This issue or conflict is very complex and it doesn't have 'good vs bad' sides. Period.

  19. #19
    Властелин
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14Russian View Post
    There are no good sides. Soon as Ukrainians realize this, the better. You can't just choose a side and that seems what is happening. Putin's puppet Yanukovych was like either leader (whether on the EU side or Putin side).

    It is laughable the amount of sugarcoating from those pro-Putin on this site. The anti-American/anti-EU rhetoric is find and dandy but then so many are defending the Putin positions. Yet, this is what Putin supported:

    Awsome video of former Ukrainian president Yanukovych empty luxury estate. - YouTube

    This is what the 'legitimate' leader in Ukraine was doing. I wonder why poverty-stricken Ukrainians wanted to change the system so badly. Oooh, what reasons could there be?!? It's just that the Western Elites recognized this opportunity to manipulate things but Putin's murder of Ukrainians is as bad. But, no one talks about that here. He is supporting military in Ukraine trying to overpower authorities to split the country so that is better than Western influence, I guess.

    This issue or conflict is very complex and it doesn't have 'good vs bad' sides. Period.
    I agree with you that there are no good sides. Every government is evil by its nature, and the current implementations of both EU/US and Russian governments have obvious dark sides. Though, why I think that the EU/US governments are better in some ways is because EU/US leaders at least are ok with people criticizing them, while in Russia and the Russian speaking world it's totally a different story.

  20. #20
    Почтенный гражданин
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    Lately it's become pretty clear that all that western/US anti-Soviet and anti-Dictatorship propaganda was just a mask for plain russophobia. Russia is no communist (at least less comunist then theUS) andno authoritarian any more but those old propaganda patterns are still being brough to the media, and the post above is perfect exmple of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 14Russian View Post
    Putin's puppet Yanukovych
    Yanukovich was the most obidient US puppet amogst all the Ukrainian presidents btw.

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