Thread: The usage of "то"...

то
pron. that, pronoun used to indicate a specific person or thing


So, if "то" means "that", and "что" also means "that"... what's the difference between them? Are they interchangeable?

i.e.

Я хочу сказать тебе что.....

Я хочу сказать тебе то...

что is conjunction and an interrogative pronoun

то is а demonstrative pronoun

Что? - То!
What? - That!

the only correct form is Я хочу сказать тебе, что or if you like to рассусоливать, then Я хочу сказать тебе то, что

in Hebrew что is ma and she-

I like the way you form your reply by considering history of conversations

the only correct form is Я хочу сказать тебе, что or if you like to рассусоливать, then Я хочу сказать тебе то, что

That doesn't make much sense in English. "I wanna tell you that, that..."

We got "that" twice, that doesn't seem right.

Что? - То!
What? - That!

Not sure I get it -- if it ends with a question it's a что and otherwise it's то?

Originally Posted by Valda

I like the way you form your reply by considering history of conversations

That doesn't make much sense in English. "I wanna tell you that, that..."

We got "that" twice, that doesn't seem right.

in English of course it doesn't, quite a different language, therefore i'd not advise trying to base your understanding on literal translation

but in Я хочу сказать тебе, что you only have one that just like in English so if another variant (то, что) confuses you, forget it, it's not that euphonical anyway

Originally Posted by Valda

Not sure I get it -- if it ends with a question it's a что and otherwise it's то?

i was trying to show that что and то are not one and the same in Russian, although into English they could be translated with just one word that

here, in Hebrew то, что sounds like ma she-

ani lo shamati et ma she-hu amar - я не слышал то, что он сказал

alternatively

ani lo shamati ma hu amar - я не слышал, что он сказал

I'm not an expert, but I think English "that" has two different meanings:

1. this - that => это/этот/эта - то/тот/та
2. which => что

When you say something like: "I want to tell you that I like you", that essentially means:

I want to say a phrase, which would convey the meaning: "I like you". => Я хочу тебе сказать, что ты мне нравишься.

Alternatively, you could say: "I've been waiting to tell you that for a long time." => Я уже давно хотел тебе об этом сказать.

So, when you say something like: "Я давно хочу сказать тебе то, что ты уже сам знаешь." that would be a colloquial way of a better equivalent: "Я давно хотел сказать тебе о том, о чём ты уже сам знаешь." and that would mean: "I've been waiting for long to tell you something that you already know."

Hope it helps.

i was trying to show that что and то are not one and the same in Russian, although into English they could be translated with just one word that

Yes, though I'm still not entirely sure how to differentiate them. I think my problem is the difficulty at grasping "demonstrative case"... in my mind it means "accusative case".. but how do you build a sentence with that? oohhh.....head hurts... ohhh..Russian...почему вы должно быт такый трудный?...

Originally Posted by Valda

Yes, though I'm still not entirely sure how to differentiate them. I think my problem is the difficulty at grasping "demonstrative case"... in my mind it means "accusative case".. but how do you build a sentence with that? oohhh.....head hurts... ohhh..Russian...почему вы должно быт такый трудный?...

i think you confuse things, there's no demonstrative case, it's the pronoun which is demonstrative тот/та/эти/это etc. because they point at objects out there

so wasn't Hebrew example helpful? i believe it illustrates the idea pretty accurately

Originally Posted by Crocodile

I want to say a phrase, which would convey the meaning: "I like you". => Я хочу тебе сказать, что ты мне нравишься.

as conjunction which is not что, but который

I'm not an expert, but I think English "that" has two different meanings:

1. this - that => это/этот/эта - то/тот/та
2. which => что

Oh, if that's really the case then "то/тот/та" ought to be way more frequent than "что"...

Поправьте меня, если я неправа

Originally Posted by LXNDR

i think you confuse things, there's no demonstrative case, it's the pronoun which is demonstrative тот/та/эти/это etc. because they point at objects out there

so wasn't Hebrew example helpful? i believe it illustrates the idea pretty accurately



as conjunction which is not что, but который

You said that:

"in Hebrew что is ma and she-"

What does it leave for то/тот/та?

Originally Posted by Valda

Oh, if that's really the case then "то/тот/та" ought to be way more frequent than "что"...

Поправьте меня, если я неправа

no, because they're used for different purposes, it's like comparing apples and oranges

try giving English examples where you think these should be used when translated into Russian

Originally Posted by Valda

You said that:

"in Hebrew что is ma and she-"

What does it leave for то/тот/та?

they have different purpose, maybe you missed this

ani lo shamati et ma she-hu amar - я не слышал то, что он сказал

alternatively

ani lo shamati ma hu amar - я не слышал, что он сказал


as demonstrative pronoun то/тот in Hebrew is hahu, та - hahi

tistakel, hine holechet ha-bahura hahi - смотри, вон идёт та девушка

Originally Posted by LXNDR

I want to say a phrase, which would convey the meaning: "I like you". => Я хочу тебе сказать, что ты мне нравишься.

as conjunction which is not что, but который

Yes, if you want to translate that word for word. All I wanted, was to demonstrate the difference, since Valda was confused how "that" could be used for two different purposes.

try giving English examples where you think these should be used when translated into Russian

I think that I saw him playing ping-pong at the beach -> то
The Americans used the A-Bomb, which still inflicts people today -> что


BTW you posted one second after me so there might be a reply you missed (replying to the Hebrew comment)

Originally Posted by Valda

Oh, if that's really the case then "то/тот/та" ought to be way more frequent than "что"...

Поправьте меня, если я неправа

It rather would be the other way around.
Try to replace "that" with its ["то"] equivalent "something" and see what you could and could not say.

Originally Posted by Valda

I think that I saw him playing ping-pong at the beach.

Pick the one which would be closer in meaning:

I think something I saw him playing ping-pong at the beach.
I think, which I saw him playing ping-pong at the beach.

Originally Posted by Valda

I think that I saw him playing ping-pong at the beach -> то
The Americans used the A-Bomb, which still inflicts people today -> что

Я думаю, что я видела как он играл в теннис на пляже

Американцы применили атомную бомбу, которая до сих пор вредит людям OR что до сих пор вредит людям (which is not very literal but understandable)


can you explain on what basis you decide where you're going to put что and where то?

____________________________________________

i think i figured out what your crux is

in Russian то is used to connect two clauses within one compound sentence only when their relationship is conditional and into English it translates as then or so

if you go, then i go too - если ты идёшь, то и я иду

you stay, so i do toо - если ты остаёшься, то и я остаюсь

here то is interchangeable with тогда which literally means then in English

they have different purpose, maybe you missed this

ani lo shamati et ma she-hu amar - я не слышал то, что он сказал

alternatively

ani lo shamati ma hu amar - я не слышал, что он сказал


as demonstrative pronoun то/тот in Hebrew is hahu, та - hahi

tistakel, hine holechet ha-bahura hahi - смотри, вон идёт та девушка

That comment is perfect for my understanding, actually If those are really the definitions of то/та/тот then it's much easier than I thought. English dictionary did a disservice to me then, I needed a Hebrew-Russian dictionary for those!

Я думаю, что я видела как он играл в теннис на пляже

Американцы применили атомную бомбу, которая до сих пор вредит людям OR что до сих пор вредит людям (which is not very literal but understandable)


can you explain on what basis you decide where you're going to put что and where то?

On the basis of "whether LXNDR says it's correct or not"

I'm planning to use что for all purposes which just means "that" (in Hebrew "she", "ma")...

I'm planning to use то just for "that one" (in masculine form) (In Hebrew "hahu"), and та/тот with their genders accordingly

i think i figured out what your crux is

in Russian то is used to connect two clauses within one compound sentence only when their relationship is conditional and into English it translates as then or so

if you go, then i go too - если ты идёшь, то и я иду

you stay, so i do toо - если ты остаёшься, то и я остаюсь

here то is interchangeable with тогда which literally means then in English

Ohh...so то has more definitions!? Yikes!

Thanks for letting me know! Any more definitions for то I should be aware of?

ani lo shamati et ma she-hu amar - я не слышал то, что он сказал

BTW if we translate it word by word....


ani (Я) lo (не) shamati (слушал) et (что) ma (что) she-hu (то) amar (сказал)... and according to you - я не слышал то, что он сказал


so if I turn it into math, 2 times что followed by то becomes то, что... little wonder why so many russians are mathematicians and engineers!

J/K-- I know I am being too literate in my comparison of languages....

Originally Posted by Valda

That comment is perfect for my understanding, actually If those are really the definitions of то/та/тот then it's much easier than I thought. English dictionary did a disservice to me then, I needed a Hebrew-Russian dictionary for those!

in my time i read to tatters the dictionary of Baruch Podolski, it's two-parted Hebrew-Russian and vice versa, but they're not completely identical in their vocabulary

Originally Posted by Valda

On the basis of "whether LXNDR says it's correct or not"

well, sounds good enough for me

Originally Posted by Valda

I'm planning to use что for all purposes which just means "that" (in Hebrew "she", "ma")...

I'm planning to use то just for "that one" (in masculine form) (In Hebrew "hahu"), and та/тот with their genders accordingly

doing so hopefully you'll eventually be able to get to the bottom of this

Originally Posted by Valda

Ohh...so то has more definitions!? Yikes!

Thanks for letting me know! Any more definitions for то I should be aware of?

not that i can think of at the moment and more material may just confuse you more

Originally Posted by Valda

BTW if we translate it word by word....

ani (Я) lo (не) shamati (слушал) et (что) ma (что) she-hu (то) amar (сказал)... and according to you - я не слышал то, что он сказал

ani (Я) lo (не) shamati (слышал) et ma (то) she-hu (что он) amar (сказал)

et isn't a pronoun but a direct object preposition so it's not counted

in my time i read to tatters the dictionary of Baruch Podolski, it's two-parted Hebrew-Russian and vice versa, but they're not completely identical in their vocabulary

Oh, an actual "book" dictionary? People still use that? Eep, that's terrible. I'll stick to my electronics ones if you don't mind

ani (Я) lo (не) shamati (слышал) et ma (то) she-hu (что он) amar (сказал)

et isn't a pronoun but a direct object preposition so it's not counted

Good point.

Thanks for all the corrections

Originally Posted by Valda

Oh, an actual "book" dictionary? People still use that? Eep, that's terrible. I'll stick to my electronics ones if you don't mind

it was before computers became mobile and portable somewhere in the 19th century

maybe there's an electronic version of that

Please watch the comma. The comma separates two things in each sentence
Я хочу сказать тебе, что ты мне нравишься -> I want to tell that I like you
Я хочу сказать тебе то, что говорил вчера -> I want tell you the same thing I told you yesterday. In this sentence "то" is basically shortened form of "это", IMHO