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Thread: Separating adjective and noun in a sentence

  1. #1
    Почётный участник ShakeyX's Avatar
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    Separating adjective and noun in a sentence

    I've noticed a lot with websites I've been using to learn (Afisha Daily, Eda.ru etc...) a tendency to separate adjective and noun. I know Russia had a loose word order but after years of learning this strikes me as particularly odd as this is normally regarded as one unit in a sentence (e.g. a white car, a black cat etc...).

    Example from eda: Среди других непривычных для шаурмы ингредиентов — рис.

    If I were asked to write this sentence - maybe due to my English brain - I would write: Среди других непривычных ингредиентов для шаурмы — рис.

    I've been told both are acceptable. I was curious if the first one was a more formal style and if people would use it in everyday speech?

    Also as a side note, what is the grammatical word for this "для шаурмы" within the sentence?

    Thanks for your help, Jake

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    Почтенный гражданин
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    There is no significant difference between these sentences. In fact I read them three times before noticing difference. Two times I thought you mistakenly wrote the same sentence twice.
    fortheether likes this.

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    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex80 View Post
    There is no significant difference between these sentences. In fact I read them three times before noticing difference. Two times I thought you mistakenly wrote the same sentence twice.
    hahahaha
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

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    Почтенный гражданин xXHoax's Avatar
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    As far as being one unit goes, since the adjective matches endings with its noun, they are separate units really; but under an important umbrella.
    Sort of depends on what level of resolution you look at the sentence, because some times you could consider the sentence just two parts - subject and predicate. (or maybe break it up all the way to the word, or syllable or further)

    I would say that the best way to look at it is that adjectives are separate, yet necessarily subordinated to their noun.

    As for why the adjective is separated by word order, that is another fantastic aspect of Russian.

    For example:
    to make out of snow
    It is (made out of snow).

    The woman is (made out of snow).

    *The (made out of snow) woman said to me,....
    The woman, (made out of snow), said to me....

    For English, adjectives/participles that have a specifying prepositional adjunct can only be used as predicates. (or they can be offset in an inner clause like the last example)

    In other words, the phrase "to be made out of snow" doesn't survive the form-transformations into all forms.
    All of this is not the case for Russian.

    You can imagine prepositions (среди, для) as being an opening box that only closes once a noun of corresponding case comes. A lot like parentheses

    ( ..................(............).................. ...)
    среди..........для.....шаурмы....... .....ингредиентов

    This only really happens though when the first preposition gets one of that noun's adjectives to "hold its place in line". So there's never going to be two prepositions in a row or anything.

    для шаурмы as a unit is a prepositional phrase, or a (prepositional) adjunct.
    "В тёмные времена хорошо видно светлых людей."
    - A quote, that only exists in Russian. Erich Maria Remarque

  5. #5
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    Hello! i believe the grammatical word for для шаурмы within the sentence is attribute (определение). It answers the question which? ингридиентов каких? - для шаурмы, attribute usually qualifies the noun, but not necessarily the subject of the sentence , like in this case the subject of the sentence is рис , predicate is skipped ( but we are assuming its verb есть) and ингридиентов is object.
    There is a book called "Практическая грамматика с упражнениями" , it explains well Russian Syntax, its a bit advanced though. Good luck

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