Thread: Russian noun stress

Hi

I'm not even sure whether this should be going into the pronunciation section, but I suppose it will be moved if it's in the wrong place. When I'm speaking Russian, noun stress is really starting to get me down, because I very often put the stress in the wrong place. Is it worth memorising the stress of every single word I learn as I learn it, or is it something that will just come naturally with practice, without having to bother with that? Although I don't write Russian particularly well at the moment - I am determined I will get a lot better - I am lots worse when I speak. I don't think it's because of nerves, but partly because of this stress thing. Does anyone have any advice? Even if it's just telling me to stop being lazy and start memorising stress? .

Спасибо за помощь. Я всем очень благодарен.
Джек

Surely not the answer you are looking for... nor an invitation to betray your Russian studies,

but other Slavic languages have fixed stress. For example, Polish has the stress on the penultimate syllable, Czech and Slovak on the first syllable.

Although that's not the answer I'm looking for, Leushka, that's still very interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. I wonder why Russian just has to be different

Jack

I think you just need to suck it down and memorise the stress pattern for each word (or even each declension). There are rules and patterns that govern noun stress (should be included in any half-way decent grammar) but they're so complicated and have so many exceptions that I didn't find them all that useful to begin with.

- don't be like this smiley.

I can recommend any listening course or simply watching Russian TV / movies with subtitles. It will come to you... eventually.

It's easier to get the knack of it this way. Memorising could help but I shudder of the sheer amount of effort you're suggesging. Listening / Watching is easier and more interesting.

Thanks for your suggestions, Scotcher and Ramil. Thank you for the humour, Ramil - stress in Russian is a very difficult topic, I think; I've been struggling with it for years. We have Russian TV here at uni; I will make an effort to watch some. Also, I could listen to Russian radio, I suppose. Anything you particularly recommend?

Спасибо за помощь. Я иду теперь на семинар русского

Джек

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Я иду теперь на семинар по русскому

урок чего? (of what?)
семинар по чему? (on what?)

теперь - now (and from now on)
сейчас - (right) now

So: Я сейчас иду на семинар по русскому (языку).

There's a helpful book by V. Klepko which offers rules of thumb for
determining stress placement in Russian.

http://www.amazon.ca/Practical-Handb.../dp/141020541X

Originally Posted by Leushka

Surely not the answer you are looking for... nor an invitation to betray your Russian studies,

but other Slavic languages have fixed stress. For example, Polish has the stress on the penultimate syllable, Czech and Slovak on the first syllable.

Some but not all. ))) Polish, Czech, and Slovak are West Slavic languages and Russian, Ukrainian, and Byelorussian are East Slavic languages. In Ukrainian stress is also not fixed, and as far as I know the same in Byelorussian.
There are also South Slavic languages (Bulgarian, Macedonian, Slovene and so on), but I know nothing about stress in languages of this group, sorry. )
I just wanted to show that not any other Slavic language would do for saving the learner from this problem. )

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Thanks for your suggestions, Scotcher and Ramil. Thank you for the humour, Ramil - stress in Russian is a very difficult topic, I think; I've been struggling with it for years. We have Russian TV here at uni; I will make an effort to watch some. Also, I could listen to Russian radio, I suppose. Anything you particularly recommend?

Спасибо за помощь. Я иду теперь на семинар русского

Джек

I'd recommend anything with russian subtitles. DVDs fit best, I think.
Listening alone woudn't probably help since there will be words that you wouldn't understand. With subtitles though you can read the words and then listen to them. And the most important thing that you can remember the words by associating them with movies you watch (you'll remember the words spoken in a live context) and thus, after a while, it will simply pop into your head when you need it.

I agree with Ramil although I like to watch film in a foreign language without any subtitles first, and then with subtitles in this language. But I understand quite much without subtitles, or, at the worst, understand the point of speech even when I cannot catch the exact words. If I understood only some words, it would be a little boring I think. )

Originally Posted by Ramil

you'll remember the words spoken in a live context

I couldn't agree more.

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Anything you particularly recommend?

Find the series that you like in Russian and you'll get many such contexts. It is not necessary that the series will be Russian, dubbed ones will do perfectly. )

Всем большое спасибо за помощь. Ваши советы всегда так реальные. Спасибо, mudrets, за ссылку. Я думаю, я куплю книгу, потому что я часто не знаю, на который слог падает ударение в русском.

Originally Posted by Zaya

In Ukrainian stress is also not fixed, and as far as I know the same in Byelorussian

The same... what? Here you need to specify a verb, Zaya. Although you may know exactly what you're talking about, it sounds strange in the second part of your sentence not to have another verb. It is partly to do with emphasising your point, I think.

You could say "and as far as I know the same goes for/applies in Byelorussian. You can also say "and as far as I know it's the same in Byelorussian". I like the last two variants; the first one sounds slightly out of place in this context, I think.

Originally Posted by Zaya

I just wanted to show that not any other Slavic language would do for saving the learner from this problem.

That sounds ok at first glance, I think, although upon reading it a few times it does sound like there is something missing.

I would write it as follows, with only two very small changes: I just wanted to show that not just any other Slavic language would do to save the learner from this problem.

They're two very small changes which make it sound a little more natural, I think.

Originally Posted by Ramil

I'd recommend anything with russian subtitles.

Спасибо, Ramil. In English the names of all languages and nationalities begin with a capital letter. So, it should be Russian subtitles.

Джек

Thanks for the corrections. The other variant was "the same situation is in Byelorussian."

I like the last two variants

OK. ) I'll remember them.

Ваши советы всегда такие + полная форма прилагательного (or Ваши советы всегда так + краткая форма).

«Реальный» здесь не подходит. Я даже не знаю, какое слово подобрать. Выбери сам :
Вы всегда даете (действительно) стоящие советы.
Вы всегда даете дельные советы.
Вы всегда даете первоклассные советы.
or even
Ваши советы, как всегда, полезны.
Вы всегда даете такие полезные советы.
Ваши советы всегда так полезны.
Despite the fact that "полезный" means "useful."

Орфографический словарь русского языка (гласные под ударением - красные)
http://alfavit.dljavseh.ru/alfavit/a.htm
__________________________________________

Толковый словарь русского языка (гласные под ударением выделены курсивом) - http://alfavit.dljavseh.ru/souz/a.htm
__________________________________________


Словарь ударений (электронная версия) - http://slovari.yandex.ru/dict/zarva

"...Новый нормативный Словарь ударений содержит около 50 тысяч слов современного русского литературного языка, вызывающих трудности при определении места ударения. ..."

Какую-то помощь этот словарь может оказать. (Почему-то многие слова в этом словаре мне незнакомы).

Там же хорошая статья "Особенности русского ударения" - http://slovari.yandex.ru/dict/zarva/1003974

(гласные под ударением выделены курсивом)

Также словари ударений есть на сайтах gramota.ru и gramma.ru:
http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?lop=x&za ... 3%E5%ED%F2 (напротив слов «Русское словесное ударение» должна стоять галочка)
http://www.gramma.ru/EXM/?id=4.20 (ударение обозначают прописные буквы)
Но нужно помнить, что многие формально неправильные варианты сейчас воспринимаются носителями языка как нормальные, а многие формально правильные их скорее удивят (к слову «агент» это не относится))).

Всем спасибо большое за вашу помощь, и ссылки. Я куплю книгу и буду смореть на сайты, когда у меня есть трудности. Если вы хотите помощь с английским, давайте знать

Джек

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Всем спасибо большое за вашу помощь_ и ссылки. Я куплю книгу и посмотрю сайты (or загляну на сайты), когда у меня будут/возникнут трудности.

In English you never use the future tense after the words "if", "when". In Russian, we do.
So if you say in Russian "if I have", it means "if I have smth at the moment, now, at the present time, or usually". If you mean probability, in the future - use the future tense (not "бы"). See how very simple it is in Russian?

Если вы хотите помощь с английским, давайте знать

Это наше постоянное желание.

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Всем спасибо большое за вашу помощь, и ссылки. Я куплю книгу и буду смореть на сайты, когда у меня есть трудности. Если вы хотите помощь с английским, давайте знать

Джек

Давай, давай, не ленись (и другие пусть не ленятся). Я думаю, нам не нужно, чтобы здесь мельтешили разные грамматические ошибки, то ли в русском, то ли в английском.