Thread: Question about short prepositions

Originally Posted by JackBoni

It would probably have been better if I had left out "тема" altogether, as the meaning isn't clear. You must use the future tense in Russian if it is implied, then?

Я буду говорить очень хорошо по-русски, когда я буду изучать много.
Я куплю что-нибудь наверное, когда я поеду в книжный магазин

Спасибо за помощь

Джек

Oh yes, I forgot that. Yeh, in Russian if the future is implied you use the future tense it's more logical.

что-то = something.
что-нибудь - anything.

Originally Posted by TATY

что-то = something.
что-нибудь - anything.

Not always.
I'll buy something = Я куплю что-нибудь

Originally Posted by TATY

Much more, much better, much bigger, much whatever,
much = намного.

How does намного differ from гораздо?

I tried to say "I will probably buy something if I go to the bookshop". Russians seem to have a very different way of thinking when they write something down - If I wanted to say this sort of thing in French or German I would just have to translate the English words into the respective language, however in Russian it seems that entirely different words are used. Aside the from grammar differences, in other languages you can write it as you think in English, however not in Russian, it seems.

Cпасибо за помощь и объяснения
Jack

Originally Posted by JackBoni

I tried to say "I will probably buy something if I go to the bookshop".

Well, "Я куплю что-нибудь наверное, когда я поеду в книжный магазин" is ok for that. I just wondered if you tried to say something else (something other?) because the sentence is not perfect. And your "когда" confused me a bit. If you have "if" in the English sentence why don't you use "если" in the Russian?
I will probably buy something if I go to the bookshop = Я, наверное, что-нибудь куплю, если пойду/поеду в книжный [магазин]. You can omit "магазин".

I used "когда" because I am too influenced by my German studies - in German, if you know anything about that, they have the same word for both "when" and "if" in the present and future tenses. I assume the sentence on its own confused you because it is out of context, without anything else accompanying it. Does the way I write Russian sound "strange" to a native Russian speaker? Aside from the grammatical errors I make - for example I might write "спасибо за ваша помощь" instead of "спасибо за вашу помощь". Also, if it does sound strange, why? Do I tend to include words that ordinarily wouldn't be there; or add extra words? Or possibly even use different words altogether than the normal?

Спасибо за вашу помощь
Джек

Maybe I'm not following your idea, but what's wrong with the sentence "Я куплю что-нибудь наверное, когда я поеду в книжный магазин"?
Когда feels perfect here.

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Maybe I'm not following your idea, but what's wrong with the sentence "Я куплю что-нибудь наверное, когда я поеду в книжный магазин"?
Когда feels perfect here.

I think I wanted just define more exactly what the sentence meant. By the way, "я куплю что-нибудь, наверное" doesn't sound very natural here. It confused me a bit, too.

I used "когда" because I am too influenced by my German studies - in German, if you know anything about that, they have the same word for both "when" and "if" in the present and future tenses

They use wann for "when" and wenn for "if", don't they?

Does the way I write Russian sound "strange" to a native Russian speaker? Aside from the grammatical errors I make - for example I might write "спасибо за ваша помощь" instead of "спасибо за вашу помощь". Also, if it does sound strange, why? Do I tend to include words that ordinarily wouldn't be there; or add extra words? Or possibly even use different words altogether than the normal?

I think one can help you if you were asking about a concrete senence. If you mean "спасибо за вашу помощь", it's perfectly Russian.

"спасибо за ваша помощь"

It'd be like saying "thank you for your help me." The meaning is there, the grammar/word usage is off.

I'd be interested to know how often a native speaker, while speaking, may mix up case endings, etc. I mean, people make grammatical mistakes when speaking English.

Originally Posted by ZelyeUrsuli

I'd be interested to know how often a native speaker, while speaking, may mix up case endings, etc.

Спортивные комментаторы делают это постоянно. Причем совсем не обязательно в быстрой речи. И даже не исправляются. Причем, то, как они строят фразы и какую иногда несут чушь - это тоже отдельная песня.

Оля, sorry to give you a German lecture, but that's not necessarily true:

"Wann" is used in questions - and is the only word possible in this context. It is not used in any other context other than in questions.

Wann gehen Sie ins Kino?
Wann stehen Sie morgens auf?

"Wenn" is used in the present and future tenses for both English words "when" and "if" - context tells which is meant.

ZB - Wenn ich ins Kino gehe, gehe ich immer mit meinen besten Freunden.

"Als" is used (among other things) for the past tense - a one off completed action (like the perfective in Russian I believe).

Als ich letzte Woche mit meiner Freundin ins Kino ging (or gegangen bin), haben wir unseren Lieblingsfilm gesehen.

Verstehen Sie jetzt? Ich k

Getting back onto Russian now, I thought "когда" seemed fine, too.

"When I go to the bookshop I will probably buy a book" - ie, I am definitely going to go there, but whether I'm going to buy a book or not is still questionable. Does the sentence work in this way?

Also, you mentioned that you can omit "магазин" in context of "книжный магазин". Is this the same as omitting "комната" in such phrases as "гостиная комната" or "ванная комната"? The noun to which the adjective refers is "understood" in Russian, then? Would it be unnatural to leave the following noun there?

Спасибо за вашу помощь
Джек

By the way, I've seen "ваш" written "Ваш" in some stuff I've been reading recently - is this just a really formal thing or is it supposed to be written capitalised all the time?

[quote=JackBoni]Verstehst du jetzt? Ich k

Again Оля, if you'd like me to explain further I will do. Your assumption is generally true, but not always. The Germans are generally sympathetic towards learners of German, as I've seen with Russian natives like yourself. Sometimes I may seem like I'm not learning very fast, but that's because I'm struggling with teaching myself - I don't have any Russian tuition at all. Just to correct you with your English, if you don't mind:

Actually I know German not that bad - Actually my German isn't that bad.

If you capitalise it, that means you adressing one person. - if you capitalise it, that means you are addressing one person - continuous present tense, and "address" or "addressing" is spelt with two "d"s, contrary to the German, which is only one - "die Adresse", I think.

I like the fact you spell words using the British spelling system, as opposed to the American system - it drives some Brits mad to see American spellings, and vice versa I'm sure.

Jack

I very much appreciate any corrections of my English. Only it would be great to see my mistakes in red

I like the fact you spell words using the British spelling system

Could you please explain it a bit wider? Which words do you mean? I really like British English, but I didn't know I used the British spelling system. (but I'd do it with my pleasure).
Are you a Brit?

Yes Olya I'm a Brit . By the British spelling system I just mean spelling words the way the Brits do as opposed to the way the Americans do. Lots of it is to do with suffixes, but sometimes it's just spelling irregularities - for example. (British first, American second).

Colour, color
Privatise, privatize
capitalise, capitalize
digitise, digitize
organise, organize
capitalise, capitalize
licence, license - both verb and noun

Unfortunately I can't think of any more, however there are loads. Most of the ones I can think of are to do with the suffix "ise", or "ize", as you can see. If you're that interested I'll keep you posted on any more I find.

I'll proceed to correct you in red later on.

Jack

Originally Posted by JackBoni

By the British spelling system I just mean spelling words the way the Brits do as opposed to the way the Americans do. Lots of it is to do with suffixes, but sometimes it's just spelling irregularities - for example. (British first, American second).

Colour, color
Privatise, privatize
capitalise, capitalize
digitise, digitize
organise, organize
capitalise, capitalize
licence, license - both verb and noun

Unfortunately I can't think of any more, however there are loads. Most of the ones I can think of are to do with the suffix "ise", or "ize", as you can see. If you're that interested I'll keep you posted on any more I find.

Thanks... Actually I didn't mean to ask what's the difference in the spelling systems, I just meant British spelling in my posts. So you were talking about "capitalise", got it now.

Oh, I've got you now. Going back to the original topic of the post, short prepositions tend to change when faced with certain consonant clusters, it seems. Are there that many of them? I know a few now, thanks to posts on this forum, however I hate spelling words wrong; it seems silly to make a mistake over one letter. Would it be possible for you to list me (some) of the consonant clusters, as I'm sure there are loads.

Ко времени, (что?) мать будет приезжать от работы, я кончу уроки. - By the time mum comes back from work, I will have finished my homework
Would it be more normal to say "to come home" in this context? How would you say that?

Во вторник, я постараюсь посмотреть французский фильм, чтобы делать успехи во французском- when do you use "язык" and when do you leave it out? I seem to overuse it...

Со дня, (что?) мои экзамены закончились, у меня появилось много времени для русского языка

Во иногом, русский язык намного труднее чем немецкий язык - how on earth do the cases work here?

Спасибо за вашу помощь.
Джек

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Oh, I've got you now. Going back to the original topic of the post, short prepositions tend to change when faced with certain consonant clusters, it seems. Are there that many of them? I know a few now, thanks to posts on this forum, however I hate spelling words wrong; it seems silly to make a mistake over one letter. Would it be possible for you to list me (some) of the consonant clusters, as I'm sure there are loads.

Ко времени, (что?) мать будет приезжать от работы, я кончу уроки. - By the time mum comes back from work, I will have finished my homework
Would it be more normal to say "to come home" in this context? How would you say that?

Во вторник, я постараюсь посмотреть французский фильм, чтобы делать успехи во французском- when do you use "язык" and when do you leave it out? I seem to overuse it...

Со дня, (что?) мои экзамены закончились, у меня появилось много времени для русского языка

Во иногом, русский язык намного труднее чем немецкий язык - how on earth do the cases work here?

Спасибо за вашу помощь.
Джек

You should really stick to simpler phrases because you are basically combining two unrelated topics into one thread; when to add fill-vowels to prepositions, and how to form complex conjunctions of time.

Да, однака, если предложения мне помогут, я могу их писать, а? Предложения, которые я написал, мне помогут подойти к проблемам, а? Как говорят "two birds with one stone", по-русски?