Thread: Question about short prepositions

Try to ask different major questions (cases, word order, explanation of a certain phrase) in different topics. You'll get more answers that way and it helps to keep a semblance of order in our asylum.

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Да, однако, если предложения мне помогут, я могу их писать, а? Предложения, которые я написал, мне помогут подойти к проблемам, а? Как говорят "two birds with one stone", по-русски?

Don't worry, your sentences are quite impressive for a beginner. I must admit, that some phrases, while grammatically correct, are rather unclear, but practice makes perfect, right?
Продолжай в том же духе!

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Да, однака, если предложения мне помогут, я могу их писать, а? Предложения, которые я написал, мне помогут подойти к проблемам, а? Как говорят "two birds with one stone", по-русски?

There is a Russian saying "don't chase two hairs, or you'll catch neither", or something along those lines.

Basically, your sentences are wrong, and require correcting, and then you'll ask for the rule to be explained, and then the thread will be about complex time constructions, and not prepositions...

To get back to topic, it's more something you get a feel for rather than learn.

But some general ideas:

В will usually change to Во for words beginning with в (or ф) + another consonant:

в Варшаве - In Warsaw
в Вене - In Vienna
в феврале - in February

But:

во вторник - on Tuesday
во всех... - in all....
во Франции - in France
во Франкфурте - in Frankfurt

Not that Ф and В are a devoiced/voiced consonant pair, so are sort of the same sound.

Originally Posted by JackBoni

К_ тому времени, когда мать приедет (придёт is better) с работы, я закончу делать уроки. - By the time mum comes back from work, I will have finished my homework

Would it be more normal to say "to come home" in this context? How would you say that? прийти домой, прийти с работы; прийти с работы is perfect

Во вторник_ (no comma here in Russian sentences) я постараюсь посмотреть французский фильм, чтобы делать успехи во французском - when do you use "язык" and when do you leave it out? I seem to overuse it...
"язык" is not nessecary here, and without it the sentence sounds perfect
But "делать успехи" is not good here... "Чтобы поупражнять свой французский" maybe... Although I don't like this variant too.

С_ того дня, когда ("с тех пор, как" is better) мои экзамены закончились, у меня появилось много времени для занятий русским языком

Во многом_ (no comma) русский язык намного труднее, чем немецкий _ - how on earth do the cases work here?

"Чем" requires the nominative case here.
You can say:
Он выше меня (genitive).
or
Он выше, чем я (nominative).

Originally Posted by TATY

There is a Russian saying "don't chase two hares, or you'll catch neither", or something along those lines.

Your variant was scary. )

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Originally Posted by TATY

There is a Russian saying "don't chase two hares, or you'll catch neither", or something along those lines.

Your variant was scary. )

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Yes Olya I'm a Brit . By the British spelling system I just mean spelling words the way the Brits do as opposed to the way the Americans do. Lots of it is to do with suffixes, but sometimes it's just spelling irregularities - for example. (British first, American second).

Colour, color
Privatise, privatize
capitalise, capitalize
digitise, digitize
organise, organize

There is no entry in the Oxford English Dictionary for 'organise' or 'agonise'.... (c) As well as capitalise

Well, sorry to disagree with you . I've just looked up all the words you listed in my dictionary (Collins, it's a fairly big one so it should be fairly reliable), and it acknowledges that both sets of spellings exist - I know for a fact that all the "ize" suffixes are American spellings, although it doesn't say this outright.

Sorry if I've offended you vox05, but if that's what my dictionary says, that's what I'll go with

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Well, sorry to disagree with you . I've just looked up all the words you listed in my dictionary (Collins, it's a fairly big one so it should be fairly reliable), and it acknowledges that both sets of spellings exist - I know for a fact that all the "ize" suffixes are American spellings, although it doesn't say this outright.

Sorry if I've offended you vox05, but if that's what my dictionary says, that's what I'll go with

Vox is right. In most cases American spellings arose from changes Americans made. However with the -ize/-ise suffix it was actually the British who changed, i.e. it used to be -ize in British English, taken directly from the latin / Greek origin.

In fact the Oxford English dictionary only recently actually included the -ise spellings. The -ize suffix is still the primary entry. Some British publications still prefer the 'traditional' -ize spelling.

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

Originally Posted by TATY

Much more, much better, much bigger, much whatever,
much = намного.

How does намного differ from гораздо?

Люди, мой вопрос никто не ответил и я, может быть, учеников ConquerRussian.net я об этом спрошу.

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

Originally Posted by TATY

Much more, much better, much bigger, much whatever,
much = намного.

How does намного differ from гораздо?

Люди, мой вопрос никто не ответил и я, может быть, учеников ConquerRussian.net я об этом спрошу.

Намного и гораздо взаимозаменяемы. Единственное отличие, гораздо в качестве ответа одним словом не подходит:
- Насколько у Абрамовича денег больше, чем у тебя?
- Намного!
Ответить гораздо! нельзя.

Upd: Хотя, вру, можно. =)) Например, на такой вопрос:
- У Абрамовича денег больше, чем у тебя?
- Гораздо!
=)

So, to summarise basically, short prepositions are "extended", as it were, after certain groups of consonants:

Во Франции
Я хочу бы жить во Вьетнаме
Мы ездим ко дню в Лондон
У меня русские друзья, которые живут во Владивостоке
Мой дедушка служил во флоте
Во вторник я хожу к доктору

Are those sentences simple enough? I don't care if the sentence is wrong, as long as the filler-vowel bit is correct.

Спасибо за помощь
Джек

Originally Posted by JackBoni

So, to summarise basically, short prepositions are "extended", as it were, after certain groups of consonants:

Во Франции
Я хочу бы жить во Вьетнаме
Мы ездим ко дню в Лондон
У меня русские друзья, которые живут во Владивостоке
Мой дедушка служил во флоте
Во вторник я хожу к доктору

Are those sentences simple enough? I don't care if the sentence is wrong, as long as the filler-vowel bit is correct.

Спасибо за помощь
Джек

Your prepositions are correct as far as I can see except I think it's на флоте, although I'm not sure.

Я хотел бы жить... - I would like to live..

бы, чтобы are used with the past tense of verbs (even if the meaning is not actually past).

And I'm drawn towards Мы едем and not Мы ездим.

Thanks TATY. I read "во флоте" somewhere in a grammar book a few days back - I think it was Terence Wade's "A Comprehensive Russian Grammar", incase the expression I used may be a little outdated or something similar.

Thanks for enlightening me on the conditional; because it's slightly different from that of any other language I've ever studied, it will take me a few goes to remember how it works. I'm assuming the sentences I wrote were natural Russian, as you did not point any mistakes out of that nature. As you may have worked out through reading my posts of the last week or so, writing in natural Russian is something I have considerable trouble with. I think I must put random words in that don't make sense or something.

Jack

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Во Франции
Я хотел бы жить во Вьетнаме
Мы ездим ко дню в Лондон what do you mean "ко дню"?..
У меня русские друзья, которые живут во Владивостоке
Мой дедушка служил во флоте
Во вторник я хожу к доктору

Are those sentences simple enough? I don't care if the sentence is wrong, as long as the filler-vowel bit is correct.

Спасибо за помощь
Джек

Во вторник я хожу к доктору - it should be either "По вторникам я хожу к доктору" (every Tuesday I visit my doctor) or "Во вторник я иду к доктору" ([Next/this] Tuesday I'm going to my doctor).

Мы ездим в Лондон can be correct depending on the context.

Служить во флоте is ok. It's not outdated.

Спасибо Оля

Then I'll explain what I tried to say:

Firstly, I meant "мы ездили ко дню в Лондон" - and secondly, I took ко дню to mean "for the day" - so, We went to London for the day - ie, we spent the day there?

In the second corrected sentence it would seem I got the verb wrong - I tried to say "On Tuesday I'm going to the doctor". I'll open a post about directional/undirectional verbs of motion, if there isn't already a recent existing one, as I don't seem to understand them.

Also, is доктор the natural Russian word for doctor, or is there a more common one? I think Врач is one, but I don't know if that's for different contexts or whatever.

Джек

I'm assuming the sentences I wrote were natural Russian, as you did not point any mistakes out of that nature

I think you can assume that only if a native did not point any mistakes in your post TATY is an Englishman.

Спасибо, Оля

I took ко дню to mean "for the day" - so, We went to London for the day

Ah! Then it's "Мы ездили в Лондон на один день".

Врач is more common, but доктор is absolutely ok, too.

Originally Posted by JackBoni

Thanks TATY. I read "во флоте" somewhere in a grammar book a few days back - I think it was Terence Wade's "A Comprehensive Russian Grammar", incase the expression I used may be a little outdated or something similar.

Thanks for enlightening me on the conditional; because it's slightly different from that of any other language I've ever studied, it will take me a few goes to remember how it works. I'm assuming the sentences I wrote were natural Russian, as you did not point any mistakes out of that nature. As you may have worked out through reading my posts of the last week or so, writing in natural Russian is something I have considerable trouble with. I think I must put random words in that don't make sense or something.

Jack

I should point out I'm not a native Russian speaker, that's why I put a lot of "but I'm not sure"s in.

It seems во флоте is correct, I was wrong.

к(o) with time expressions means "by".
Мы приедем к восьми часам - We'll arrive by eight.

Originally Posted by TATY

It seems во флоте is correct, I was wrong.

You weren't. Both are correct.

"Во флоте" is listed in the dictionaries as 'standard', while "на флоте" is considered to be special/professional (used by seamen themselves). But in fact both forms are very common (with "на флоте" being slightly more colloquial) and many people use them interchangeably.

Originally Posted by BappaBa

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

Originally Posted by TATY

Much more, much better, much bigger, much whatever,
much = намного.

How does намного differ from гораздо?

Люди, мой вопрос никто не ответил и я, может быть, учеников ConquerRussian.net я об этом спрошу.

Намного и гораздо взаимозаменяемы. Единственное отличие, гораздо в качестве ответа одним словом не подходит:
- Насколько у Абрамовича денег больше, чем у тебя?
- Намного!
Ответить гораздо! нельзя.

Upd: Хотя, вру, можно. =)) Например, на такой вопрос:
- У Абрамовича денег больше, чем у тебя?
- Гораздо!
=)

Наконец-то!)) Спасибо большое, BappaBa!