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Thread: Noun cases , an automatism ?

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    Подающий надежды оратор rouloubole's Avatar
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    Noun cases , an automatism ?

    Hello everyone.

    I've been studying Russian for a little time now, and I feel stuck at one major ( I think ) point of russian grammar : declensions

    the problem is not actually to learn them, as I know them, the problem is when to use them ( I hope you understand me ), even if I read lessons over and over, and feel like I know it, when actually practicing I don't know what to do

    so I am wondering, for you speaking russian, if it becomes an automatism, and how ?

    Because I really don't know how tu use them, and it's a real problem, because I want to master this before going further into grammar ( it is also the start of my book ). I haven't made a lot of progress on learning because of this too.

    thank you in advance

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    Почтенный гражданин xXHoax's Avatar
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    Mastering it before moving on in grammar isn't a bad idea. Exposing yourself to (massive) amounts of native written text will help with the relation of words. I had the same sort of trouble when I started. The idea is that there are no floating words, that just have no specified job. Every word is exactly labeled for what it does in the sentence. I'm not even a native speaker, and I can attest that the concept of a word having a different ending depending on its job in the sentence (object, subject) fits very very well into the mind. It certainly becomes automatic, even obvious. Going over each case, and all of their reasons for showing up, should help. It's important to always know why a word is the case that it is in a sentence, because it's never an accident. Your brain notices and files away patterns until "Я вижу кошка" sounds wrong. Just like wrong grammar will "sound wrong" in your native language, this sense will come, and you probably won't notice it happening. Out of the parts of speech- nouns (pronouns), and adjectives decline. Ideally, any adjective will always have a noun to which it refers, and is tied to. An important concept is that genitive mainly requires another noun somewhere in the sentence that is affected (this helps with no word ever being left out). Exposure to fully written sentences is what will develop the sense of organization that declension gives. All the words in every sentence in any language are connected to all the others in some way, Russian just marks the connections. English sentences often just simply miss an object and we have no problem with that, but in Russian, every single word is specifically where and what it is for a logical reason.

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    Подающий надежды оратор rouloubole's Avatar
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    Wow, thank you for this answer !
    What types of texts do you recommand me , if it is not asking too much ?

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Songs (including some traditional folk-songs and children's songs) and poetry can be helpful because the rhyme/meter can sometimes give you some clues to help remember the declension endings:

    Расцветали яблони и груши
    Поплыли туманы над рек__
    Выходила на берег Катюша
    На высокий берег на крутой.

    Here, the word for "river" has to be in a case that rhymes with the end-stressed masculine adjective кру-ТОЙ -- thus, it can only be "над ре-КОЙ" (feminine instrumental, end-stressed), but not "над РЕК-ой" (correct ending, wrong stress) or "над ре-КЕ" (which could be either dative or prepositional, but neither one is allowed with "над") or "над РЕ-ку" (the correct spelling and stress of the accusative singular, and "над" can take the accusative in some contexts -- but it doesn't rhyme!).
    Говорит Бегемот: "Dear citizens of MR -- please correct my Russian mistakes!"

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    Songs (including some traditional folk-songs and children's songs) and poetry can be helpful because the rhyme/meter can sometimes give you some clues to help remember the declension endings:

    Расцветали яблони и груши
    Поплыли туманы над рек__
    Выходила на берег Катюша
    На высокий берег на крутой.

    Here, the word for "river" has to be in a case that rhymes with the end-stressed masculine adjective кру-ТОЙ -- thus, it can only be "над ре-КОЙ" (feminine instrumental, end-stressed), but not "над РЕК-ой" (correct ending, wrong stress) or "над ре-КЕ" (which could be either dative or prepositional, but neither one is allowed with "над") or "над РЕ-ку" (the correct spelling and stress of the accusative singular, and "над" can take the accusative in some contexts -- but it doesn't rhyme!).

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    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rouloubole View Post

    so I am wondering, for you speaking russian, if it becomes an automatism, and how ?
    повторение мать учения - Repetition is the mother of knowledge.
    практика доводит до совершенства - Practicing leads to perfection
    нет легкого пути к успеху - there are not shortcuts to success.

    To cut the long story short (кратко говоря), there is just one way: take you grammar book and read it 10 times, until you understand! Some things will sound logical and somethings no.
    Memorize what it does not make sense ... it will make after 2,3,4 years.
    Now you don't have another option. Listening to songs or watch movies and russian news will not help you at the beginning of your learning. Just the traditional way of reading grammar books.
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

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    Подающий надежды оратор rouloubole's Avatar
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    Thank you everyone

    I agree with reading my lessons over and over, just I think I need to see it ( and not only 1 exemple ) to really understand what it is. Well , I already understand the prepositional and instrumental ( i think ahah ) because of practicing.

    I will read the lessons over and over, and also read normal text, I think !

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