Thread: Разные вопросы по грамматике (by Antonio1986)

Привет.

What is the difference between "сказать" and "поговорить"? The only thing I understand is that they both indicate the future of "говорить".

спасибо!

"сказать" - to say or to tell(once), "поговорить" - to have a conversation

spasibo

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Привет.

What is the difference between "сказать" and "поговорить"? The only thing I understand is that they both indicate the future of "говорить".

спасибо!

1. Neither of them indicates future unless you put it into the future form.
The forms you have provided are the infinitive forms. The infinitive does not have any tense. But you can put it into the Past, the Future, or the Present. The Present is only available for the Imperfective verbs. The verbs you are asking about are Perfective, so they do not have Present, only Past and Future:

"Сказать"
Past:
Я сказал (I said, I told something).
Future:
Я скажу (I will say, I will tell something).

"Поговорить"
Past:
Я поговорил (I had a conversation with someone).
Future:
Я поговорю (I will have a converstation with someone).

2. What makes these verbs similar is that both of them are perfective (while "говорить" is imperfective).

If you are not familiar with the concept of the aspect (Perfective vs Imperfective), then you are going to listen to a long story about it, and there is a lot of things to understand (not possible to put it into a single post).

To make it simpler, first notice the fact the Imperfective verb can be used in any Tense:
Present: Я говорю. (I am speaking, or I speak).
Past: Я говорил. (I was speaking, or I used to speak).
Future: Я буду говорить. (I will be speaking).

The perfective verbs, as I wrote above, do not have Present, they can only be used in Past or in Future.

3. The difference between "сказать" and "поговорить" is in their meaning. "Cказать", as Wanja explained, indicates a one-time completed action:
Он сказал мне, что он не придёт. - He told me that he would not come.
"Поговорить" belongs to the class of verbs of the so-called "limited action" (which is indicated by the prefix "по-"). In fact, it means "to speak for some limited amount of time":
Я вчера поговорил с Петром. - Yesterday I talked to Peter (for a limited time duration, i.e. I had a conversation with him).

That was an excellent answer. I fully understand the concept of Perfective and Imperfective. My problem was the meaning of these two words but with the examples you provided the meaning was clarified.
As I understand skazat' is used with Dative: ona skazala nam, chto ... = She told us that ...
Pogovorit' is synonym of having a dialogue with someone and it is used with the Preposition: "c" + Instumental e.g. Я вчера поговорил с Петром
Pravil'no?

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

"Поговорить" belongs to the class of verbs of the so-called "limited action" (which is indicated by the prefix "по-"). In fact, it means "to speak for some limited amount of time":

I just wanted to repeat this so that Antonio doesn't overlook it, since there are quite a number of по- perfectives that have this meaning of "to do such-and-such for a little while [but then stop doing it]." So:

Я сидел на диване. = "I was sitting on the sofa [and sat and sat and sat, and kept on sitting...]"
Я посидел на диване. = "I sat for a little bit on the sofa [then I stood up and went outside for a walk]."

Privet
I know that "u menya est' mashina" means I have a car.

What I don't know is how to say by using the structure of "u mengya est'":
(1) I had a car
(2) I will have a car.

мне нужна помощь пожалуйста!!!

Present: У меня есть машина. I have a car. (literally: At me is car).
Past: У меня была машина. I had a car. (literally: At me was car).
Future: У меня будет машина. I will have a car. (literally: At me will be car).

Spasiba.
As I understood the verb "est''" changes according to the object that follows.
Naprimer:
1. Past: у меня был стакан : In this Case the object is masculine.
2. Future: у меня будут машины : In this Case the the object is in plural.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Spasiba.
As I understood the verb "est''" changes according to the object that follows.
Naprimer:
1. Past: у меня был стакан : In this Case the object is masculine.
2. Future: у меня будут машины : In this Case the the object is in plural.

You're absolutely right!

That's because "стакан", "машины" etc. is grammaticaly the subject of the phrase (like "a glass was", "cars will be").

Privet,
Based on the same thema and using the structure "u menya est'" how we say "We must have ...", if there is of course any.
For example: We must have an alternative solution. The only thing i can think is with the verb "иметь": "мы должны иметь одно альтернативное решение".

Privet.
My question is regarding the Russian Irregular Verbs that change the stem on the first person Singular.
I have found the following examples:

INFINITIVE - FIRST PERSON SINGULAR
1. ответить - отвечу
2. ходить - хожу
3. гордиться - горжусь
4. видеть - вижу
5. сидеть - сижу
6. стать - стану
7. плакать - плачу
8. сказать - скажу

Are there any specific rules whether I should use ж, ч, н when I change the stem in the first person singular?
For example the verbs ending in "-дить" and "-деть" seem to transform "д" to "ж"?
Is this one rule?

спасибо !!!

This is not irregular.

This is called consonant mutation. стать does not belong in this list, different idea.


For ить verbs, first person:
д => ж
з => ж
т => ч
с => ш eg Попрошу вас...
ст => щ

For плакать and __казать verbs (and several others) the mutation is throughout the present tense. Скажешь мне ... Они плачут. etc.

Another mutation is insertion of ль.

Verbs that have ......(б п в ф м)ить insert the ль. Eg любить => Люблю ... ставить кормить etc do this.

Originally Posted by Seraph

This is not irregular.

Technically, this is true -- one needs to distinguish between "truly irregular" verbs (believe it or not, some scholars would say that Russian has only four of them *) and "verbs whose conjugations are annoying and confusing to foreigners" (of which Russian has too many to count). But from a learner's perspective, a verb conjugation like that of мочь (я могу, ты можешь...) might as well be irregular, even though strictly speaking it's not.

* Or, to be more precise, there are only four "basic, unprefixed" irregular verbs, though you can form additional verbs (with the same irregular conjugations) by prefixing. These basic irregular verbs are:

есть ("to eat")
дать ("to give," perfective)
хотеть ("to want")
бежать ("to run," uni-directional)

However, examples such as идти having the past tense forms шёл, шла... aren't counted among these "irregular" verbs -- even though for all practical purposes идти would seem to qualify as "highly irregular."

So, Antonio, that's what Seraph was getting at in saying that these "mutating-consonant" verbs are not irregular.

"verbs whose conjugations are annoying and confusing to foreigners" (of which Russian has too many to count)

But even though there are tons of these verbs, it's possible to group them into (I'm guessing) fewer than three-dozen categories, such as:

• "verbs that behave like пасть"
• "verbs that behave like давать "
• "verbs that behave like бить"

...and so forth.

Learning two or three dozen basic conjugational patterns seems like a lot, but obviously it's a lot more efficient than memorizing the individual conjugations for thousands of different verbs!

I'm not sure whether there's some kind of "sticky" post somewhere on MR summarizing all the conjugations by pattern -- does anyone know?

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

But even though there are tons of these verbs, it's possible to group them into (I'm guessing) fewer than three-dozen categories, such as:

• "verbs that behave like пасть"
• "verbs that behave like давать "
• "verbs that behave like бить"

please also note that пасть can be a noun with the meaning "mouth/jaws/gorge"

..."verbs that behave like бить"...

... вить лить пить шить and prefixed forms ...and verbs that behave like мыть (выть крыть ныть рыть) and prefixed forms. Пасть => красть класть.

More of the 'а' verbs that mutate throughout the present tense: писать искать резать шептать махать.

искать махать have third type of mutation, velar (first two above are dental and labial).

г => ж
к => ч
х => ш
ск => щ

This mutation is rare compared to the dental and labial mutation. Also, the velar mutation is different than the following change, but it is easy to confuse the different types of changes:
ке => че
ге => же

Originally Posted by Seraph

This is not irregular.

This is called consonant mutation. стать does not belong in this list, different idea.


For ить verbs, first person:
д => ж
з => ж
т => ч
с => ш eg Попрошу вас...
ст => щ

For плакать and __казать verbs (and several others) the mutation is throughout the present tense. Скажешь мне ... Они плачут. etc.

Another mutation is insertion of ль.

Verbs that have ......(б п в ф м)ить insert the ль. Eg любить => Люблю ... ставить кормить etc do this.

Важно спряжение, а не на что заканчивается инфинитив.

ездить? and then there's еть, in the идти group.

(исправил инфинитив)

Originally Posted by chaika

ездить? and then there's еть, in the идти group.

(исправил инфинитив)

I'm not sure what you were trying to say, forgive me if my corrections are wrong
There is no word "еть" there is a word "едь" conjugated from the verb "ездить"
The same conjugation from the verb "идти" will be "иди"