Thread: Genitive negated and plural genitive

Does every masculine negated noun go to Genitive plural. I swear it does, but can't find anything in the books. And now that I check it, is the Bucknell site down?!! Also, how do words that are always plural land in the Accusative. Do do they go fem, masc or just stay the same. These are asinine but for some reason I can't go another day with out getting a definitive answer...


Kiitos.

What do you mean "negated noun"?
дом
нет дома (genitive singular)
нет домов (genitive plural)
Always plural:
У меня есть ножницы (nominative)
Я вижу ножницы (accusative)
У меня есть брюки (nominative)
Я надеваю брюки (accusative)
Their accusative form is identical to nominative (it's true for every inanimate plural noun and non-feminine singular, I guess).

Originally Posted by pisces

What do you mean "negated noun"?
дом
нет дома (genitive singular)
нет домов (genitive plural)
Always plural:
У меня есть ножницы (nominative)
Я вижу ножницы (accusative)
У меня есть брюки (nominative)
Я надеваю брюки (accusative)
Their accusative form is identical to nominative (it's true for every inanimate plural noun and non-feminine singular, I guess).

I think BMF is talking about things like:
Я не знаю русского языка

ok, ive dug out the Penguin russian course out and maybe this will help:

'normally' If a verb which takes the accusitave case has HE infront of it the object should be in the gen, not the acc BUT you dont seem to see it that much (esp in conversation).

general rules:

1) if the object is strongly negated, object must be in gen
(я не понимаю ни одного слова)

2) use genitive if the object is an abstract noun, something indefinite or the word 'это'
(я этого не говорил)

3) use the accusitive if the object is a definite person or thing
(я еву не люблю)

hope that helps

A follow up question...please compare these these sentences.

Если я не видел этот фильм, я обязательно посмотрю его.

Если бы я не видел этого фильма, я бы обяательно посмотрел его.

Why accusative in the first, and genitive in the second?

The second one is an old-style variant (however it is still used).
Genitive case is sometimes used instead of accusative when the predicate is negated.
Я делал эту работу (accusative only)
Я не делал эту работу (accusative variant)
Я не делал этой работы (genitive variant)
For animate objects, accusative takes the same form as genitive, so there should be only one variant.

Originally Posted by pisces

Я не делал эту работу (accusative variant)
Я не делал этой работы (genitive variant)

Do these two sentences mean exactly the same thing? What I mean is, is it just a stylistic difference, or is the choice of acc/gen connected to what is being negated, in a similar way to how word order can change the nuance of a sentence without changing it's literal translation?

To use your example:

Я не делал эту работу - I didn't do the work (but someone else did)

Я не делал этой работы - I didn't do the work (but I did something else)

or am I barking up the wrong supposition?

There is only a stylistic difference.

OK, thanks.

(I suppose that would've been too easy)

For animate objects, accusative takes the same form as genitive, so there should be only one variant.

Is that both masculine and feminine animates, or just masculine?

Yes, for masculine only. My mistake.
I was thinking of "кого? чего?" (genitive) and "кого? что?" (accusative) not realizing that actual endings for "кого?" in these cases are different.

It was from way back and had forgot it. I could have swore I was told that it is:
У меня нет домов.
That (I guess it's usually called) absence make the absent thing go Gen pl.

And they other part was about whether always plural take the act like fem or masc. of course this only matter in acc. but still, couldn't find it in a book.

Thanks all, sorry for confusion.

Originally Posted by ВМФ

It was from way back and had forgot it. I could have swore I was told that it is:
У меня нет домов.
That (I guess it's usually called) absence make the absent thing go Gen pl.

And they other part was about whether always plural take the act like fem or masc. of course this only matter in acc. but still, couldn't find it in a book.

Thanks all, sorry for confusion.

Hmm, that means, "I don't have any houses."
У меня нет дома would be, "I dont' have a house."

Feminine nouns also go into the genitive when negated:

Нет женщин = there aren't any women.