Thread: Chapter 18 questions

On to the next chapter...

This is a model sentence for one exercise, I need to substitute different elements in it:
Борис пожаловался на то, что ему скучно. Does this mean, "Boris complained about being bored/that he was bored."? What does the на то add to the sentence? I haven't run across this before and I don't see it explained in the book.

Also there is the verb болеть on the vocabulary list. Is this pronounced the same as балет except for the soft final t?

Thanks,
Z

Originally Posted by zorro

On to the next chapter...

This is a model sentence for one exercise, I need to substitute different elements in it:
Борис пожаловался на то, что ему скучно. Does this mean, "Boris complained about being bored/that he was bored."?

yes it does

Originally Posted by zorro

What does the на то add to the sentence? I haven't run across this before and I don't see it explained in the book.

it's conjugating construction
Борис пожаловался на то, что ему скучно.
Boris complained about being bored

Originally Posted by zorro

Also there is the verb болеть on the vocabulary list. Is this pronounced the same as балет except for the soft final t?

indeed

Originally Posted by zorro

Борис пожаловался на то, что ему скучно. Does this mean, "Boris complained about being bored/that he was bored."?

Yes, you are right.

What does the "на то " add to the sentence? I haven't run across this before and I don't see it explained in the book.

It has to do with verbs being transitive or intransitive. Intransitive verbs require prepositions (or, postpositions) after them, e.g.:
To wait FOR someone,
To grumble AT something,
To complain ABOUT (or: OF) something,
Etc.

The same is true about the Russian verbs. In your case, the verb "жаловаться" requires the preposition "на" что-то and the Accusative Case of the complement. E. g.:
Моя бабушка жалуется НА головную боль.
Еще она жалуется НА отсутствие денег.
Врач спросил меня:"НА что Вы жалуетесь?"

Sometimes it is hard to express the cause for the complaint in one word, so you need a subordinate clause.
"Борис пожаловался на .... " (main clause) НА ЧТО? - then follows the subordinate clause: "то, что ем скучно."

More examples:
Старики жалуются на то, что молодежь им грубит.
You can also say: "Старики жалуются, что молодежь им грубит."
Учителя жалуются (на то), что дети не хотят читать книги.



Also there is the verb болеть on the vocabulary list. Is this pronounced the same as балет except for the soft final t?

Correct, "o" is not accentuated and is therefore reduced to a weaker /a/, so you say /баЛЕТ'/, /Т'/ being palatalized, or softened.


Thanks,
Z

You are welcome, and Blessings from above in your studies,

Adding a few kopecks to Yulia65's excellent explanation for zorro...

zorro: Борис пожаловался на то, что ему скучно. Does this mean, "Boris complained about being bored/that he was bored."? What does the на то add to the sentence?

1. Борис пожаловался, что ему скучно. = "Boris complained that he was bored."

2. Борис пожаловался на то, что ему скучно. = "Boris complained about the fact that he was bored."

Notice that both in English and in Russian, sentences #1 and #2 have the same meaning. In English, "...about the fact..." isn't really necessary, and in Russian, ...на то... can likewise be omitted from the sentence. So why do people use these unnecessary words?

Probably because there are other constructions where "...the fact..." CANNOT be omitted:

• "in spite of the fact that he was bored" (несмотря на то, что ему скучно)
• "this has no relation to the fact that he was bored" (это не касается того, что ему скучно)
• "you shouldn't confuse his anger with the fact that he was bored" (нельзя путать его гнев с тем, что ему скучно)
• "in light of the fact that he was bored" (ввиду того, что ему скучно)

Here, notice that you CAN'T say, in English, "in spite of he was bored" or "this has no relation to he was bored" or "don't confuse his anger with he was bored" or "in light of he was bored," etc. And similarly, in Russian, there are contexts where the pronoun то (meaning, in this context, "the given/observable fact") is mandatory for grammatical reasons.

When I studied Russian in college (Lo, these many moons ago...), our professor explained that the neuter pronoun то , in such constructions, is functioning as a "dummy" pronoun -- it's only there to agree with certain prepositions like "with" or "of" or "to". And in the English construction "...the fact, that..." the word fact is often nothing more than a "grammatical dummy" or "placeholder".

You guys are fantastic. Thank you for your help.

Throbert--So in this pair of sentences, Борис пожаловался, что ему скучно./Борис пожаловался на то, что ему скучно., на то is not required, but there are other times it is required, it that right?
Yulia--Thanks for your clear explanation. As for the "blessings from above", I can definitely use them. Today is the feast of St. Cyril on the Catholic calendar and I've been praying for miracles all day long If I ever mention I'm considering giving up, please don't let me. There are 27 chapters in this book and I think by the end of the year I should be through it and have a good foundation. It takes me about a month to get through each chapter.

Z

Originally Posted by zorro

Throbert--So in this pair of sentences, Борис пожаловался, что ему скучно./Борис пожаловался на то, что ему скучно., на то is not required, but there are other times it is required, it that right?

Correct! However, I'm not sure if there's an easy and general rule-of-thumb about when the на то would be required, and when it would be optional. It mainly depends on the specific verb that's used in the main clause, before the subordinate "что" clause.

Борис пожаловался, что ему скучно./Борис пожаловался на то, что ему скучно
Both are correct.

Also using на то, you can emphasize the fact that he is bored.
На что пожаловался? - На то, что ему скучно.

But it sounds ok if you don't want to emphasize this fact as well. So you can omit it or not at your discretion.

There's a section in this chapter about different verbs for "to study" and "to teach": преподавать, (на)учить, (вы)учить, изучать/изучить, (на)учится, заниматься. Can someone look at this exercise and correct my mistakes. There are two pages of rules about the different shades of meaning and which cases are used with which objects of the different verbs. I find this pretty baffling. If anyone can simplify it for me, that would be great. Here I need to write the Russian verb for the English.

Моя старшая сестра(studies)в МГУ. --учится
Я обычно (study/do homework) в библиотеке. --занимаюсь
Мой старший брат (has been studying) немецкому языку два года. --учится
Где вы (learned) так хорошо говорить по-русски? --изучали
Студенты сидят в комнате и (are learning) диалог. --учат
Я этот диалог уже (have memorized). --выучил

There are a lot more but this is all I have time for now.

Thank you for any help,
Z

Где вы научились так хорошо говорить по-русски?

Originally Posted by zorro

There's a section in this chapter about different verbs for "to study" and "to teach": преподавать, (на)учить, (вы)учить, изучать/изучить, (на)учится, заниматься. <...> There are two pages of rules about the different shades of meaning and which cases are used with which objects of the different verbs. I find this pretty baffling. If anyone can simplify it for me, that would be great. <...>

Thank you for any help,

Z

You did really well on that exercise!

One way to simplify learning all these semantically related verbs would be to group them as:
(1) verbs conveying the idea of "teaching/instructing":
- Учить/научить кого-то (Accus.) чему-то (Dative),
- обучать/обучить кого-то (Accus.) чему-то (Dative),
- преподавать кому-то (Dative) что-то (Ассus.);
(2) verbs conveying the idea of "studying/learning":
- учить/выучить что-то (Ассus.),
- изучать/изучить что-то (Accus.),
- учиться где? (Prep.),
- учиться/научиться чему-то (Dative),
- заниматься где? (Prep.),
- заниматься чем-либо (Instrumental).

The hardest to learn would probably be the verb "учить", since it conveys both the meanings of (1) teaching/instructing smth to smbd, and (2) studying/learning smth or somewhere.

I Am a strong believer in reading/hearing as many illustrations of these verbs used in different sentences as possible. As you read more and more examples of these verbs used in speech, their shades of meanings and the following Cases of their objects will become clearer and easier to retain in memory. E.g.:

УЧИТЬ (1) кого? (Accus.) чему? (Dative) or + Infinitive
= обучать, наставлять, преподавать, передавать знания и опыт:
- Я учу своих детей математике (литературе, музыке).
- Мы учим детей быть добрыми и вежливыми.
- Мой отец учил студентов порядочности и добросовестности.
- Моя мама научила меня шить, вязать и готовить.
- Библия учит нас любить Бога и ближнего.

УЧИТЬ (2) что?
= изучать, усваивать, запоминать:
- В детстве я учила английский язык.
- Мы учили английский язык по советским учебникам.
- Мой друг учит иностранные языки самостоятельно.
- Моя дочь учит наизусть сонет Шекспира.
- Сын старательно учит новую пьесу для фортепиано.

Yulia and Lampada,

Thanks for your help. I agree lists of rules are only a guideline while using and hearing the verbs in real life will eventually clear things up. In the meantime, these are some more from the same exercise:

Я очень хотел бы (to learn) водить машину. --научится
Отец (is studying) очень интересную проблему на работе. --изучает
Мои друзья (occupy themselves with) спортом. --занимаются
Этот учитель (teaches) их французкому языку. --учит
Бладимир Александрович (teaches) нам географию. --преподаёт

There's also a translation at the end of the chapter: "I would like to learn to speak Russian well". Would this be-- Я хотел бы научить хорошо говорить по-русски. ?

Thanks,
Z

Originally Posted by zorro

Yulia and Lampada,

Thanks for your help... In the meantime, these are some more from the same exercise:

Я очень хотел бы (to learn) водить машину. --научитЬся
(Correct, but мягкий знак should be used, since it is an infinitive)
Отец (is studying) очень интересную проблему на работе. --изучает
(Correct)
Мои друзья (occupy themselves with) спортом. --занимаются
(Correct)
Этот учитель (teaches) их французкому языку. --учит
(Соrrect, "обучает" is also possible)
Бладимир Александрович (teaches) нам географию. --преподаёт
(Correct)

There's also a translation at the end of the chapter: "I would like to learn to speak Russian well".
Would this be-- Я хотел бы научить хорошо говорить по-русски. ?
(" Я хотел бы научитьСЯ ...", since "научить" implies you want to teach others to speak Russian well.
To convey the meaning of learning, you have to choose the reflexive verb "научитьСЯ")

Thanks,
Z

Excellent job! keep hanging in there!

i just noticed a typo in the name "Владимир". The first letter should be "В".

Thanks again, Yulia,

This is the last part of the exercise:

Я хотел бы (to teach) в институте в Ленинграде. --научить
Ваня молодец. Он (has learned all there is to know about) алгебру, химию, физику и англиский язык. --изучил
У кого ты (аre studying) американской литературой? --занимаешься

In this chapter, the possessive adjective/pronoun свой is introduced also. I'm a little confused about these two sentences. Is it the same answer for both?

Я мало знаю о (my own) дестве.
Мы обычно рaботали в (our own) кабинете. --своём for both?

Thanks again for any help,
Z

Я хотел бы (to teach) в институте в Ленинграде. --научить (преподавать, "учить" звучит не очень)
Ваня молодец. Он (has learned all there is to know about) алгебру, химию, физику и англиский язык. --изучил (ок)
У кого ты (аre studying) американской литературой? --занимаешься (ок0

In this chapter, the possessive adjective/pronoun свой is introduced also. I'm a little confused about these two sentences. Is it the same answer for both?

Я мало знаю о (my own) детстве. своём
Мы обычно рaботали в (our own) кабинете. --своём for both? нашем )

Thanks, pushvv,

The directions for the last exercise say Поставьте местоимение свой в правильном падеже. Is своём grammatically correct for the second sentence?

Z

This is another translation exercise using learn/teach verbs:

Where did you learn to speak Spanish so well?
I studied Spanish three years in Madrid.

Где вы научились так хорошо говорить по-испански?
Я изучил испанский язык три года в Мадриде.

Is this right?

Z

zorro, not изучил but изучал (imperfect)

>> Is своём grammatically correct for the second sentence?
I think it is correct too.