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Thread: Case Question

  1. #1
    Почтенный гражданин impulse's Avatar
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    Case Question

    Hello,

    I have a question related to the cases;

    For example is it possible to use accusative case or genitive case after the verb хочеть? Or it it only possible to sue the dative case? I try to understand how meaning changes by using different cases after a verb certain verb? Thanks alot.
    Иди и учи русский!

  2. #2
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    хочеть? Um, I guess you've meant хотеть.

    Both genetive and accusative are possible for a direct object of this verb with a subtle to none change of meaning. Dative? I don't think so.

    Example.

    Я хочу воду - Я хочу воды - both are the same. The last one is genitive and it kind of implies that you want some water, not all the water in the world. This genitive case is assumed to be really a partitive case in this case.

    But я хочу стол not я хочу стола. However both я хочу столы and я хочу столов are possible. I think it's due to the partitive case in there. While стол is considered to be a solid and not usually divided object you can't use partitive here. But if you go for plural столов you can use partitive because those столов can be a part of a larger group of tables.

    I hope this helps.
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  3. #3
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    Firstly, there is no such verb as "хочеть". There is "хотеть".
    Secondly, you may use it with both accusative and genitive cases but with a slight different meaning. "Хотеть" means "to want". So, if you want something as a whole thing or you want something in general you use it with accusative. For example: "Я хочу эту булочку". When you want a piece of something, usually a portion of some substance such as water, milk, tea, you use genitive case: "Хочу воды", "хочу чая". And this word is never used with dative.
    But you have to know one thing. Some words as "чай" have two forms of genitive case. The usual form: "чая", and so-called partitive case "чаю". So you may often come across such phrases as "хотеть/выпить чаю" or "хотеть/выпить чая". They are both correct and both genitive.
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  4. #4
    Почтенный гражданин impulse's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the explanations. That is a great detail about understanding cases! I will keep that in mind! Best.
    Иди и учи русский!

  5. #5
    Почтенный гражданин impulse's Avatar
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    So is it like this?

    Я хочу красней машины - I want a car with a specific color.
    Я хочу машину - I want a car. More general
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  6. #6
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by impulse View Post
    So is it like this?

    Я хочу красней машины - I want a car with a specific color.
    Я хочу машину - I want a car. More general
    No, я хочу красной машины is not possible. That's not about its color, it's about the fact that you imply only one car so you can't really say that you want a part of a car. That'd sound ridiculous, wouldn't it? So Я хочу красную машину is the only correct usage.

    However if you go with a plural you may use genitive because as I said many cars can be considered just as a part of something bigger. Like you want two cars out of those 5 cars. See the logic?

    Я хочу красные машины and Я хочу красных машин are both possible

    Cheers
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by iCake View Post
    No, я хочу красной машины is not possible. That's not about its color, it's about the fact that you imply only one car so you can't really say that you want a part of a car. That'd sound ridiculous, wouldn't it? So Я хочу красную машину is the only correct usage.

    However if you go with a plural you may use genitive because as I said many cars can be considered just as a part of something bigger. Like you want two cars out of those 5 cars. See the logic?

    Я хочу красные машины and Я хочу красных машин are both possible

    Cheers

    If you're a monster who eats cars, you might say:

    я хочу машины

    "I could really go for some car right about now."
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  8. #8
    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Douglas View Post
    If you're a monster who eats cars, you might say:

    я хочу машины

    "I could really go for some car right about now."
    Well, I don't see how it is connected with eating here
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

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    Увлечённый спикер bublinka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Douglas View Post
    If you're a monster who eats cars, you might say:

    я хочу машины

    "I could really go for some car right about now."
    Not really. Such monster can say Я хочу металла, Я хочу пластмассы, Я хочу колес. You can use only something uncountable in singular from here (and the word машина doesn't fit). We don't say Я хочу бутерброда, Я хочу булочки (not plural nominative!). If something is countable it cannot be used in such way.
    In plural - almost anything you want, though Я хочу машин and Я хочу столов do not sound very natural to me. I would not say like that.

    Another thing is "мне хочется".
    I'd say Мне хочется булочки sounds better than Я хочу булочки, but I'm not sure it is correct.

  10. #10
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bublinka View Post
    ...Another thing is "мне хочется".
    I'd say Мне хочется булочки sounds better than Я хочу булочки, but I'm not sure it is correct.
    Я бы ожидала какой-нибудь глагол после хочется: Мне хочется поесть, поспать, пойти погулять.
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



  11. #11
    Почтенный гражданин impulse's Avatar
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    I am really confused. Could anyone one write some examples?
    Иди и учи русский!

  12. #12
    Увлечённый спикер bublinka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    Я бы ожидала какой-нибудь глагол после хочется: Мне хочется поесть, поспать, пойти погулять.
    А как же "хочется то ли демократии, то ли осетрины с хреном" (не помню точную цитату, кажется, Салтыков-Щедрин) ?
    Quote Originally Posted by impulse View Post
    I am really confused. Could anyone one write some examples?
    Я хочу чаю. Я хочу чая. (uncountable)
    Я хочу яблоко. Я хочу яблока - неправильно. (countable)
    Я хочу пирожки. Я хочу пирожков (this one is tricky. I can imagine someone saying this, but personally I won't do it. But I can say "Мне хочется пирожков", so I think "Я хочу пирожков" is also possible). (plural, when countable acquires some qualtites of uncountable (infinity)).

    But you can say Я хочу пирога meaning the part of it. Пирог goes as uncountable as normally no one can take the whole thing at once. So in this case if you want some part of something - some of really uncountable things (tea, water, soup, etc.) or some of really big thing (that it is obvious you want a part, not the whole one).
    Examples of big things - пирог, торт, окорок, арбуз... I can't think of anything that's not edible

  13. #13
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    "Грамматика русского языка в иллюстрациях"
    ст.№ 88-91
    Lampada and impulse like this.

  14. #14
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plosheet View Post
    "Грамматика русского языка в иллюстрациях"
    ст.№ 88-91












    impulse likes this.
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



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    impulse likes this.
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



  16. #16
    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plosheet View Post
    "Грамматика русского языка в иллюстрациях"
    ст.№ 88-91
    Отличная книжка! Спасибо!

    BookReader - Грамматика русского языка в иллюстрациях (Пехливанова К.И., Лебедева М.Н.)
    impulse likes this.
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



  17. #17
    Почтенный гражданин impulse's Avatar
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    Спасибо Вам большое за огромную помощь!
    Иди и учи русский!

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    Завсегдатай maxmixiv's Avatar
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    "Невозможно передать смысл иностранной фразы, не разрушив при этом её первоначальную структуру."

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