Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: All about один!

  1. #1
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Serving Polonium-flavoured Sake at a London Japanese Restaurant
    Posts
    2,662
    Rep Power
    12

    All about один!

    OK, I was looking over some grammar exercises, and I saw "один" used in some ways I hadn't seen (or noticed perhaps). This brings me to my questions:
    1. Он в киоске купил один конверт и одну марку. Is there ANY difference from just saying Он в киоске купил конверт и марку. I understand the meaning, but is there any context in which one is better/different from the other? Does one sound better to your native-Russian ears?
    2. Is один 100% interchangable with только? Can I say Только Бог знает and have it mean exactly what Один Бог знает? На тарелке остались одни крошки is 100% interchangable with На тарелке остались только крошки?
    3. And finally, is it interchangable with самый and тот же? Are all these acceptable and equal statements?:
    - Мы учились в одной школе.
    - Мы учились в той же школе.
    - Мы учились в самой школе.
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

  2. #2
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Moscow,50 feet above the ground
    Posts
    4,106
    Rep Power
    14
    1 You need use один here if the number really does matter. Say, if you need to count how much money he spent. In most cases it does not mater and it's even better to not use один at all.

    2 In such cases - yes, true, completelly equal - только=один.

    3 Мы учились в одной школе - we (you and someone else) studied in the same school.
    Мы учились в той же школе - you just inform someone else that you studied there too.
    Мы учились в самой школе - works only with the stressed o in самой - and means that you studied right in the school building, not in the school courtyard, not in the neighbour building or on its roof, but inside the school.
    Мы учились в той самой школе - we studied in the very school (which was destroyed by tornado last week).
    Мы учились в той же самой школе = Мы учились в той же школе.
    Мы учились в самой+adjective школе - we studied in the most+... school
    Я так думаю.

  3. #3
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Other Universe
    Posts
    8,501
    Rep Power
    27

    Re: All about один!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barmaley
    OK, I was looking over some grammar exercises, and I saw "один" used in some ways I hadn't seen (or noticed perhaps). This brings me to my questions:
    1. Он в киоске купил один конверт и одну марку. Is there ANY difference from just saying Он в киоске купил конверт и марку.
    the same difference as in
    He bought one envelope and one postmark in a kiosk
    against
    He bought an envelope and a postmark in a kiosk.

    In the first case you explicitly specify number for some reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barmaley
    I understand the meaning, but is there any context in which one is better/different from the other? Does one sound better to your native-Russian ears?
    Better without один - it's more fluent but to me there's very little difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barmaley
    2. Is один 100% interchangable with только? Can I say Только Бог знает and have it mean exactly what Один Бог знает? На тарелке остались одни крошки is 100% interchangable with На тарелке остались только крошки?
    Yes, here is the 100% equality.
    Funny it may seem but you can use both of these words in a single sentence:
    На столе остались одни только крошки.
    На столе остались только одни крошки.
    both are correct.

    Hahaha:
    Один Бог - is a name of a Norse god Odin
    Never use capital letters unnecessarily

    Seriously though, the difference in English would be as in:

    God only knows
    versus
    God alone knows

    Quote Originally Posted by Barmaley
    3. And finally, is it interchangable with самый and тот же? Are all these acceptable and equal statements?:
    - Мы учились в одной школе.
    - Мы учились в той же школе.
    - Мы учились в самой школе.
    The seconds sentence needs an object (clarification):
    Мы учились в той же школе, что и ты.
    Мы учились в той же школе, что и Гагарин

    The last one is incorrect.
    It means We've been going to the school itself.

    Мы учились в одной и той же школе.
    Мы учились в той же самой школе, что и ...(кто-нибудь ещё).
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  4. #4
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Moscow,50 feet above the ground
    Posts
    4,106
    Rep Power
    14
    Мы учились в той же школе. - It's a right sentence.

    В какой школе учился Иван Иваныч?
    В школе №3.
    А вы с папой?
    Мы учились в той же школе.

    На углу был банк. Магазин находился в том же доме.
    Иван жил на Волхонке/9. Мы жили в том же доме.

    Один бог знает. - Big O is correct as well - don't lissten to Ramil Barmaley - everytime use it in the begining of the sentence - it's nessesary!

    PS: бог Один is Norse god Odin
    Я так думаю.

  5. #5
    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Other Universe
    Posts
    8,501
    Rep Power
    27
    Spoilsport. I was only joking.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  6. #6
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Serving Polonium-flavoured Sake at a London Japanese Restaurant
    Posts
    2,662
    Rep Power
    12
    Would this be correct?
    (I would like to order one pair of blue jeans and one pair of black jeans)
    я хотел бы заказать одни синие джинсы и одни черные джинсы.
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

  7. #7
    JJ
    JJ is offline
    Властелин
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Ural, Russia
    Posts
    1,390
    Rep Power
    12
    Exactly.
    Gib immer 100% bei der Arbeit: 12% am Montag, 23% am Dienstag, 40% am Mittwoch, 20% am Donnerstag, 5% am Freitag ...

  8. #8
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3,216
    Rep Power
    13
    только и один are always interchangable or just in some cases?

  9. #9
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Moscow,50 feet above the ground
    Posts
    4,106
    Rep Power
    14
    Not always, occasionally.

    I'd suggested that только=один in all cases where something/somebody belongs to something/somebody, like:

    Его сердце принадлежит только ей и ей одной.
    His heart belongs to her and her only.

    Одному ему известно = Только ему известно means that he owns some knowledge, it belongs to him.
    He only knows = the knowledge belongs to one person, only to him.

    Это было адресовано вам обоим? Нет - одному мне.
    Was it adressed to both of you? No - to me only. No just (to?) me.

    means that the subject (a letter, a present, a phrase) belongs to one person and you wish to underline that fact.
    Я так думаю.

  10. #10
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Almaty (former Alma-Ata), Kazakhstan
    Posts
    920
    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Leof
    Одному ему известно = Только ему известно means that he ought some knowledge, it belongs to him.
    He only knows = the knowledge belongs to one person, only to him.
    What did you want to say? "that he owns some knowledge, it belongs to him"?
    Please correct my mistakes if you can, especially article usage.
    My avatar shall be the author I'm currently reading.

  11. #11
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Moscow,50 feet above the ground
    Posts
    4,106
    Rep Power
    14
    ah yes - it was a wrong word, thank you!
    Я так думаю.

  12. #12
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Serving Polonium-flavoured Sake at a London Japanese Restaurant
    Posts
    2,662
    Rep Power
    12
    OK one more question, then. The example I gave with the jeans was ok, I was told (I can't believe something was actually 100% right for a change! ). But if you use туфли it would be different, right, because you can have a single shoe. So how would you guys say this, like you were calling Nike on the phone to order shoes:
    I would like to order one pair of blue shoes and one pair of black shoes.
    Would you have to use пара in such a case, like so?:
    я хотел бы заказать одну пару синих туфлей и одну пару черных туфлей.
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

  13. #13
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Moscow,50 feet above the ground
    Posts
    4,106
    Rep Power
    14
    you can ask them to sell you:
    ...одни синие и одни чёрные туфли
    ...по (одной) паре чёрных и синих туфель
    ...синие и чёрные туфли

    one shoe will be одна туфля ,say, if you have one leg only you can try to ask them sell одну синюю и одну чёрную туфлю. But don't forget to ask both on the same leg, otherwise they might sell you left and right.
    Я так думаю.

  14. #14
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Serving Polonium-flavoured Sake at a London Japanese Restaurant
    Posts
    2,662
    Rep Power
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Leof
    ...одни синие и одни чёрные туфли
    And that doesn't sound bizarre in Russian? I was going to mention that one, but I though I'd get laughed out of the forum. If I were to say "I would like to buy one black shoes and one blue shoes," in English, I would be directed to a mental hospital...
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

  15. #15
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Seventh
    Posts
    4,113
    Rep Power
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Barmaley
    Quote Originally Posted by Leof
    ...одни синие и одни чёрные туфли
    And that doesn't sound bizarre in Russian? I was going to mention that one, but I though I'd get laughed out of the forum. If I were to say "I would like to buy one black shoes and one blue shoes," in English, I would be directed to a mental hospital...
    It's because one in English can only be singular.

    Whereas we say "one pair", Russians can use одни.

    If I said "one clock", would it be "одни часы"?
    Ingenting kan stoppa mig
    In Post-Soviet Russia internet porn downloads YOU!

  16. #16
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Serving Polonium-flavoured Sake at a London Japanese Restaurant
    Posts
    2,662
    Rep Power
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Quote Originally Posted by Barmaley
    Quote Originally Posted by Leof
    ...одни синие и одни чёрные туфли
    And that doesn't sound bizarre in Russian? I was going to mention that one, but I though I'd get laughed out of the forum. If I were to say "I would like to buy one black shoes and one blue shoes," in English, I would be directed to a mental hospital...
    It's because one in English can only be singular.

    Whereas we say "one pair", Russians can use одни.

    If I said "one clock", would it be "одни часы"?
    Right. I knew that, but I thought it was just because it was a single object that just so happened to have a plural form. But I thought shoes would be different, since you have a PAIR of shoes. You can have both туфли as well as a туфля. You can't have часы and a час.
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

  17. #17
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Moscow,50 feet above the ground
    Posts
    4,106
    Rep Power
    14
    yes. but note that you can separate the pair of shoes and take one shoe.
    часы is a single thing and you can not separate it. It's called so because of the dial with hours.
    Я так думаю.

  18. #18
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Serving Polonium-flavoured Sake at a London Japanese Restaurant
    Posts
    2,662
    Rep Power
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Leof
    yes. but note that you can separate the pair of shoes and take one shoe.
    часы is a single thing and you can not separate it. It's called so because of the dial with hours.
    That was precisely my point!
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

  19. #19
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Moscow,50 feet above the ground
    Posts
    4,106
    Rep Power
    14
    No! It was mine, and my only!
    Я так думаю.

  20. #20
    Почтенный гражданин BabaYaga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    610
    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Barmaley
    That was precisely my point!
    Quote Originally Posted by Leof
    No! It was mine, and mine only!

    You mean...... this thread actually has two points?!


    Excuse me, I just have to go and sit down for a minute......



    :P
    Ой, голова у меня кружится |-P ...... and my brain hurts too....

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Не один раз... пока не...
    By radomir in forum Translate This!
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: June 24th, 2009, 07:59 AM
  2. Раз vs Один
    By vxp in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: October 5th, 2007, 10:29 PM
  3. Не один раз...пока не...
    By Vladi in forum Translate This!
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: June 16th, 2006, 06:57 AM
  4. Ещё один привет...
    By Rtyom in forum Fun Stuff
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: May 21st, 2006, 05:21 PM
  5. Ещё один перевод
    By Darobat in forum Translate This!
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: August 9th, 2005, 07:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary