Thread: Ah, This Grammar is Making me Insane!

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

I wonder if English-speaking people never call a modern high-rise "дом" a house?
I understand it can be called "a building". But I think "a building" is something more general: it can be a factory, a museum, a hospital, a temple etc. of various architecture types.
Is it true that "a house" is reserved only for a rural low-rise "дом"? Or am I missing something?

I'm not native but from what I heard - a house usually implied to someone's home (one family) and in the US sometimes even more strictly applied to a separate few-story residential building that belongs to a family, a house usually stays on a piece of land that belongs to the same family . Other types of "residential spaces" will be townhouse, apartment, flat, studio and condo (from condominium).
Other types will be buildings and one building can include several apartments for example.

Для кого и пещера жилище, точно!


Doomer,
but if you have address, let say, "Partizanskaya 10", how could you call the object type, situated at this address? If not house, then ... building?

I bet, if the discussion encompass the term подъезд too, it will end not soon

Originally Posted by Doomer

I'm not native but from what I heard - a house usually implied to someone's home (one family) and in the US sometimes even more strictly applied to a separate few-story residential building that belongs to a family, a house usually stays on a piece of land that belongs to the same family . Other types of "residential spaces" will be townhouse, apartment, flat, studio and condo (from condominium).
Other types will be buildings and one building can include several apartments for example.

Thank you, Doomer!
BTW, is it a US-specific concept? What is about the UK, and the rest of the English-speaking world? (If anyone knows...)

It's interesting that it contradicts to my intuitive image of house/дом When I hear this word out of a context, the first thing that comes to my mind subconsciously is an image of a multistory multi-apartment modern urban building. I am an urban dweller myself, and that is the reason. But I think it's also an issue related to some cultural differences.

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

I bet, if the discussion encompass the term подъезд too, it will end not soon

I believe "подъезд" in English is just "porch" or "entrance". But when applying it to a street address (like ул. 1 Мая, д. 10, подъезд 2) I would translate it as "entrance": 1st May str. - 10, entrance 2.

Of course, it would be better to have some input from native English speakers, if they could comment on it.

How flat differs from apartment?

Originally Posted by Anixx

How flat differs from apartment?

As far as I know, "flat" is used in UK, and "apartment" in US.

Originally Posted by Anixx

How flat differs from apartment?

AFAIK flat is a one-story apartment. Apartment, for example, could have two stories

I like OALD dictionary, because it always differentiates between British English and American English. From my experience, Americans tend to say 'apartment' (when they mean a Russian квартира), while Brits usually say 'flat'. It's a common mistake though on the part of Russian speakers to use the word 'house' when they actually mean 'apartment building, or block of flats' (this is due to lack of specific terms in Russian and seeming universality of the word "дом" which might mean anything in Russian, almost any type of dwelling).

flat - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

apartment - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Is there any other thread on 'housing'? I love this topic. I was always wondering what terms would they use in English when referring to Russian "двор", "подъезд". On the other hand, how would a Russian translate 'housing project'? (as in 'I live on project, dawg...'). The difference between Russian 'коттедж' and English 'cottage' seems really fascinating.

Online, you can see pictures for 'detached house' 'semi-detached house' 'row housing'. Part of the problem with 'house' is the use as adjective. As in housing project, which are larger buildings, not houses. Equipment may have a 'housing', that is nothing at all like a house. Habitable buildings that are houses can range from single family, to multi-family, single floor, to multiple floors, detached, semi- or row houses.

Originally Posted by alexsms

On the other hand, how would a Russian translate 'housing project'? (as in 'I live on project, dawg...'). The difference between Russian 'коттедж' and English 'cottage' seems really fascinating.

Interesting: housing project = "a group of houses or flats/apartments built for poor families, usually with government money".
Frankly speaking, it's the first time I learn about it. If I had not read your post, I would think it is just a "project", i.e. something what is being planned, not constructed yet.

BTW, I've just looked through some pictures of "housing projects" at "housing project" - Поиск в Google.

Some of them look more like what we call "микрорайон" in Russian (e.g. pictures of Singapore and Mumbai). I'd say they are beautiful and modern, I would never guess they are for "poor families".

I believe "подъезд" in English is just "porch" or "entrance".

Боб, я имел в виду, понятны ли англоязычным такие фразы:
- В нашем подъезде 98 квартир, а все стены разрисованы.
- Федя из третьего подъезда включил газ и лёг спать.
- Игорь Иртеньев | * * *
... и как я мог бы перевести их на английский. Просто "porch"? А ю шуа?

Originally Posted by Doomer

AFAIK flat is a one-story apartment. Apartment, for example, could have two stories

Can I say "flat apartment"?

Originally Posted by Anixx

Can I say "flat apartment"?

Unlikely

Мне кажется, что в Чикаго во всех жилых домах только одна входная дверь. Есть ещё дверь во двор, но её всегда открывают ключем. Не помню ни одного дома с подъездами (вход/выход), как в СССР.

I'd say they are beautiful and modern, I would never guess they are for "poor families".

They start out beautiful and modern, but sometimes what follows is the so-called "tragedy of the commons" -- the public areas of the building detoriorate, with graffiti and trash and urine in the hallways, because the residents have very little economic incentive to take care of the common areas. This is part of the rationale for alternative approaches that assist low-income people in buying homes or condominum apartments -- when people OWN property, they care more about protecting it, maintaining it, and even making improvements to it.

On the other hand, some "housing projects" are designed with the intention that both middle-class and poor families will live in them -- with the middle-class tenants paying something close to market rates, and the poor tenants receiving subsidies. The idea is, (1) that the "upper lower class" will be able to climb up the ladder into the "lower middle class," and (2) that the poor families in general will absorb some of the "solid bourgeois values" of their middle-class neighbors. Or, to put it another way, the assumption is that it's not a good idea to have too many poor people living too close together, because they'll learn bad habits from each other.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Мне кажется, что в Чикаго во всех жилых домах только одна входная дверь. Есть ещё дверь во двор, но её всегда открывают ключем. Не помню ни одного дома с подъездами (вход/выход), как в СССР.

да нет, есть и с подъездами и чем ближе к даунтауну, тем больше таких домов

"hallway" is definitely the word I should learn. It seems, that it could be used at times instead "подъезд".

Recently, I received funny check out of ATM. They print the address of the bank along the other info.
The address is printed both in Russian and English
Here it is:
г.Москва ул. Смирновская, д.10, стр.22
Moscow 10, bldg 22, Smirnovskaya St.

Now I wonder: Does English variant give you brain damage, or it looks okay?

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Or, to put it another way, the assumption is that it's not a good idea to have too many poor people living too close together, because they'll learn bad habits from each other.

That makes sense to me.
However from what I see nobody wants to live in areas with "too many poor people". Even poor people want to get away, but they just can't.