Thread: How do you say...

Originally Posted by challenger

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

I've always thought that who and whom are interchangeable. seems like whom is kind of formal. I hardly ever use it.

You should But I have a question: How would you say that in Russian? Я всегда думаю/думал?

Chuvak's right. I would say Я всегда думал, что....

no, techincally challenger is right. I boo-booed.

Let's imagine that it was simply a typo.

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

I've always thought that who and whom are interchangeable. seems like whom is kind of formal. I hardly ever use it.

Who, whoever, etc are nominative. Whom, whomever, etc are non-nominative. So its "Whoever called me STFU!" lol, but its "Call whomever you want" or "To whom it may concern" but not "To who it may concern."

But whom is becoming archaic, especially in casual conversation. In most cases you can use who in place of whom and it actually sounds more normal.

Originally Posted by mashamania

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

I've always thought that who and whom are interchangeable. seems like whom is kind of formal. I hardly ever use it.

Who, whoever, etc are nominative. Whom, whomever, etc are non-nominative. So its "Whoever called me STFU!" lol, but its "Call whomever you want" or "To whom it may concern" but not "To who it may concern."

But whom is becoming archaic, especially in casual conversation. In most cases you can use who in place of whom and it actually sounds more normal.

Thanks for the explanation!
Well, in the phrase 'To whom it may concern" whom is used because there's a preposition. If I remember correctly, 'who' cannot be used if there's a prepostion in a sentence. For instance, you cannot say: I saw the guy to who you spoke yesterday. You should say: I saw the guy who you spoke to yesterday OR I saw the guy to whom you spoke yesterday.
Perhaps, I'm wrong because it was a very long time ago that I last saw the rule explaining the difference between 'who' and 'whom'.

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

Thanks for the explanation!
Well, in the phrase 'To whom it may concern" whom is used because there's a preposition. If I remember correctly, 'who' cannot be used if there's a prepostion in a sentence. For instance, you cannot say: I saw the guy to who you spoke yesterday. You should say: I saw the guy who you spoke to yesterday OR I saw the guy to whom you spoke yesterday.
Perhaps, I'm wrong because it was a very long time ago that I last saw the rule explaining the difference between 'who' and 'whom'.

In "Call whomever you want" whomever is accusative. In "To whom it may concern" whom is dative. Whenever its nominative, you use who. But whenever its not nominative, use whom. So its also "About whom did you speak?" or rather, "Whom did you speak about."

And it should be "I saw the guy whom you spoke to" since whom is not nominative in this sentence.

You are right. It sounds funny to use who after a preposition. In most cases you can use who for whom. After a preposition is one of the few cases where it does sound strange. "I saw the guy who you spoke to" actually sounds more normal than "I saw the guy whom you spoke to" or worse, "I saw the guy to whom you spoke".

But even the sentence, "You spoke to who?" doesnt really sound all that strange.

I seem to have gotten this! Thanks for your extensive explanation!

ReD, don't worry about it too much. Most english-speakers (western) don't know the difference either, and often use 'whom' incorrectly

tdk

Originally Posted by mashamania

Originally Posted by ReDSanchous

Thanks for the explanation!
Well, in the phrase 'To whom it may concern" whom is used because there's a preposition. If I remember correctly, 'who' cannot be used if there's a prepostion in a sentence.

For instance, you cannot say: I saw the guy to who you spoke yesterday. You should say: I saw the guy who you spoke to yesterday OR I saw the guy to whom you spoke yesterday.
Perhaps, I'm wrong because it was a very long time ago that I last saw the rule explaining the difference between 'who' and 'whom'.

In "Call whomever you want" whomever is accusative. In "To whom it may concern" whom is dative. Whenever its nominative, you use who. But whenever its not nominative, use whom. So its also "About whom did you speak?" or rather, "Whom did you speak about."[/quote]

Prepositions take the objective case, which is one of the oblique cases; it's not a "non-nominative case." In Middle English there were four cases, but the dative and accusative merged into one.
WHO=Subjective case
WHOM=objective case

With that information, anyone should be able to use who/whom properly.

Nazis whoM follows that anyways?

I like them!!! They seem to be so funny!!!

They look like morons, sorry.

Chuvak, dots are essential!